Front stage

[Exalted512]

I'm wondering what i should do for my front stage
eventually my sub set up will be 2 Bramha12s in a sealed enclosure....around .4-.5ish ft^3 powered by a USAmps-USA3000....approx. 1500 watts each but ill have the gain turned down to somewhere around 11-1200 watts per sub
im looking for a component set or a DIY that we be able to keep up, basically
im looking at the DLS Iridium 8.3s or 6.3s
ive heard from some ppl that the midbass is better for the 6.3s...
my main concern with the front stage is the absolute best sound quality under $675-$750
675 being the preferred...will absolutely not budge over 750...
that or comparable dynaudios, utopias, or eurosports
utopias are pretty much out, i dont think theyll be able to keep up like the others will
the cdts are probably the worst in the SQ dept, but the best in the "loudness" factor
im also willing to do a DIY set, but not sure...the ones ive heard i found that the speakers fought against, or rather didnt have a smooth transition b/t the speakers, but my experience is by no means what i would call extensive...
but either way, this is why im leaning towards a nice premade system
so if anyone has opinions on this, id be greatly appreciative
-Cody

[98cepektahoe]

ive heard nothing but good things about all the speakers you listed....but im a cdt fan so id probably go for the euros

[belmont]

DSZ71 has Dynaudio 240gt's i believe. i was looking into those myself.

[95stroked1500]

don't forget, good highs aren't any good without a great amp to push them. when you get into these high end set ups, they play what they are fed. some are not designed to "mask" impurities, because then they also will mask some fine details. so the amp needs to be clean and powerful. also, some of the factory xovers have phase and impedance correction circuitry. so one advantage, your amp will see a CONSTANT 4 ohm PURELY RESISTIVE load. what about brax, helix, and quart? just a few others to search.

if you want to go cheap, you can still do an awesome set up if you know what to look for and what you are doing. you can go against the grain and find some home audio stuff on close outs. many, many years ago, i did a set up with some vifa (european build house for cdt) home stuff. took first in an sq comp and still got plenty loud.

[Exalted512]

the amps will be USAmps, right now it looks like ill be going with the usa-1000x
300 watts per channel, gain turned down
-Cody

[95stroked1500]

the amps will be USAmps, right now it looks like ill be going with the usa-1000x
300 watts per channel, gain turned down
-Cody

look into their tu 600. tube amp, 90% efficient, designed for sq.

[Exalted512]

it wont hold up to the abuse my truck goes through
-Cody

[slaterbj]

I'm glad you are going through the same thing I am right now. I am also looking for some good components in that range. I have been talking to DSZ71 lately and he loves his Dynaudios. The one thing is that they LOVE power, and lots of it. I have been looking at the Dynaudios and the Iridiums. The Iridiums 6.2 are quite a bit cheaper ~500. I have been leaning to getting the Iridiums, I haven't heard a bad thing about them. Plus if we get a group buy on DLS I would be getting a good deal. Good luck on the solid front stage, I have been tweaking mine, and the best I have found is to have my tweeters in the lower A-Pillars. It sounds pretty good, and I am sure with some better speakers it will sound 10x's better.

[Exalted512]

yea...i went and start post whoring on put this on several different forums...havent been getting a lot of replies but a lot of people have been PMing me and IMing me on AIM
it seems like the general opinion is the as far as SQ goes, its DLS, Dyn, Focal, then CDT
i just wish i knew if the iridiums would keep up with the brahmas...if they can im sold on the iridiums, but then again ill still be questioning whether i should get the 6.3s or the 8.3s...too many decisions, too little time...too little money...lol
-Cody

[DSZ71]

Cody, have you contacted Scott Buwalda of DLS yet? He is on the Car Sound & Perf forums and he may be able to answer your questions concerning the Brahmas-DLS combo. Like Larry (95Stroked1500) was saying, the Dyns put out what you give them. I did a test where I took one of the DLS A3 amps and mono bridged the channels to give me +550 watts/channel and hooked it up the Dyns......It was loud and clear. I was able to go easily over the 30 mark on the volume knob on my ////Alpine head unit. The tweeter never cut out either. The only thing I did see was the driver would get a bit muggy at around 33 volume-wise on certain bass notes, but it was a Reggae song, so I dont know how it will sound with your music prefferences. The Focals are like over $1k, so if you are in the budget range of $750 tops...dont look at them for sure.

DLS makes clean amps, and much cheaper when compared to Brax/Helix. The Ultimate A3 will push your comps just fine.

BTW...in your assesment above on SQ ratings vs speakers....The first 2 are backwards. :whacko:

[Exalted512]

i emailed him yesterday, ill post what he says when he replies
4 people have told me they liked dls over dyn...lol
actually, youre the only one whos told me different
-Cody

[DSZ71]

4 people have told me they liked dls over dyn...lol
actually, youre the only one whos told me different
-Cody

Well if you as Scott, then of course he will say DSL...Ever since I was a little tike in high school (1989-1993) I knew of the legendary DynAudio speakers. Thats when there were good companies (or whent the companies were good I should say) Like Alpine, Soundstream, etc... I had a set of Alpine 6062s (I think that was the model #) which were 6.5" drivers made by Dyn and I had them hooked up to a Punch 75 and they rocked my damn world. Its been hard to find that same feeling in a long time, and now the Dyns give me that feeling again, So my opinions are all based on experience. I havent heard the DLS speakers, so in all honesty I cant say. But one thing is true, if they are anything like the amps...they are definately in the top spots...but the top spot...I dont think so. Why is it that the damn Europeans make the better audio equipment?

Hey have you used that damn "G-F" router jig I sent you yet?
:cussing:

[Exalted512]

not yet...im waiting for my subs to get here...i can only work on it when i go home on the weekends
you know what? ive posted this on a bunch of different forums...a bunch as in:
caraudioforum
caraudiotalk
elitecaraudio
soundillusions
and sounddomain
all purely car audio forums...and i get the best/most responses on this forum
i want to thank everyone on here for putting your 2 cents in and im sure others will post as well...such as faint reality
crazy huh?
:FSCrules:
-Cody

[DSZ71]

...and im sure others will post as well...such as faint reality
crazy huh?

-Cody

Hint...Hint...


BTW have you tried these two forums??

Car Sound & Performance
SPLBassX

The first being prolly the best because the top names in car audio have their own sections. But its actually rare when they post.

[DSZ71]

Hey Cody, I almost forgot, have you consider the Phoenix Gold Ti951 Elite 3 way set? The one with the 9" driver?? I heard a lot of great reviews on this set as well. But I think its over the $750 mark as well. Hey you should sell your PLASMA and up your budget! Ah the college days and needing BEER money, what one would do for the hops and barley.

Ti951 Elites (http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI951COMPE)

[Exalted512]

yea, someone recommended them but like you said, theyre over my budget
i have been selling plasma!!
LOL
i got a job now...does anyone want to buy knives from Cutco?
guaranteed forever, dont have to have the receipt to return them, you can get them resharpened for free, no questions asked warranty, and you can return them for a full refund within 15 days of purchase....lol
-Cody

[Litljay]

Have you considered Boston? I love my BA Pros. I think their Z series is three way and they can handle a gob of power. 300 watts a side is plenty of power for whatever you choose.

I'm running mine bi-amped so each speaker is seeing 75 watts off a Arc 4150cxl. Does just fine for me anyway.

[Exalted512]

yea...some of their comps have insane power handling....like 400 watts...crazy stuff....but i never cared for the sound of em...any of their series from the bottom to the top
-Cody

[DSZ71]

I'm wondering what i should do for my front stage...

im looking for a component set or a DIY that we be able to keep up...
my main concern with the front stage is the absolute best sound quality under $675-$750
675 being the preferred...will absolutely not budge over 750...

-Cody

I was thinking about this some this afternoon. If you went the DIY route, what would you use for the frequency separation, a unit like the AudioControl units? What DIY speakers did you have in mind for the Midbass driver, the midrange driver (if its a 3 way set), and the tweet? I think this option would be pushing your budget of $750.

[Exalted512]

they would be active by an audio control eqt
im not completely sure about the DIY set
right now im pretty much deciding that if we do get a DLS GB going...should i get it
i have plenty of time for a DIY set because even if i do get the iridiums...unless i get the 6.3s, they will not be going into my current truck
im not going to hack away at my door when i wont be keeping it
-Cody

[FaintReality]

I had the CDT euros', considered the dynaudios and utopias models, but went with the DLS iridium 8.3's. The only other set I have been given a lot of though over is the Seas lotus reference series, in which the DLS iridium set works much better off axis, thus, will work better for my particular install.

All comps you mentioned will sound great, some just might suit you better than others. The only real way to tell is to audition them, but, when you get into gear that high end, its hard to find shops and or people to audition them so...

As for the iridium mid bass, definately go with the 8" over the 6.5" if you can!

[slaterbj]

As for the iridium mid bass, definately go with the 8" over the 6.5" if you can!

How hard would that be to fit in a NBS chevy door? I think the main problem would be the depth. For the speaker mounting I would probably use the door panel and stiffen the crap out it with fiberglass. Hopefully that would be enough.

Cody-
If you are going to go the build your own component route I would probably go with the Seas Lotus. As far as active crossovers I have 2 audiocontrol 24xs laying around, let me know if you want to go that route. They are just collecting dust.

[Exalted512]

i was looking at getting the audiocontrol 6xs....how does the 24xs compare?
how much do you want for em?
see...the thing is...whatever i do i probably wont have em installed til next summer when i get my truck
as far as how do they fit...ive heard theyre pretty shallow...but heres a link:
http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=005212
-Cody

[DSZ71]

I was looking at some Vifa tweeters the other day after someone posted a link to them on Car Sound & Performance forums. They look like they would be a sweet tweeter. I have also heard some really good stories about them. But Seas makes great tweets as well. It seems like we are always going back to those damn European companies again...why can't America wake up and build a better speaker? What funny though is that most American audio companies have an overseas build house anywho.

[Exalted512]

ahhh...fug it...im going with the 8.3s
bring on the group buy
lol
-Cody

[95stroked1500]

Cody, have you contacted Scott Buwalda of DLS yet? He is on the Car Sound & Perf forums and he may be able to answer your questions concerning the Brahmas-DLS combo. Like Larry (95Stroked1500) was saying, the Dyns put out what you give them. I did a test where I took one of the DLS A3 amps and mono bridged the channels to give me +550 watts/channel and hooked it up the Dyns......It was loud and clear. I was able to go easily over the 30 mark on the volume knob on my ////Alpine head unit. The tweeter never cut out either. The only thing I did see was the driver would get a bit muggy at around 33 volume-wise on certain bass notes, but it was a Reggae song, so I dont know how it will sound with your music prefferences. The Focals are like over $1k, so if you are in the budget range of $750 tops...dont look at them for sure.

DLS makes clean amps, and much cheaper when compared to Brax/Helix. The Ultimate A3 will push your comps just fine.

BTW...in your assesment above on SQ ratings vs speakers....The first 2 are backwards. :whacko:

check out the dyn site where they have posted the car audio test. the dyn xover is of a "purists" design. for hard core car audio that veers a little away from the pure path, you can build your own xover with steeper slopes. that will stop the break up at super, super loud/ high power levels (they already get super loud). if you do, make sure to incorperate a tweeter protection. their tweets will play loud and clean even though they are about to burn up. it's a thermal kind of thing. if you're good, design in the phase and impedence circuitry also. you can buy mids and tweets seperately with out having to buy their xover.

also, when you get that us amp to run them, get the high voltage/ lower amperage model. there will be the 1000 and the 1000x. one is higher amperage/ lower voltage, and the other is opposite. i can't remember which is which.

[Exalted512]

i chose the 1000x b/c it does 300 watts at 4 ohms, the 1000 does 150x2@4
heres the link
http://usamps.com/default.asp?View=products/competition.htm
what about their digital amps?
i noticed the digital 3000 is much more efficient than the regular 3000
-Cody

[95stroked1500]

let me check when i swing by the shop tomorrow as to which one is the higher voltage. from the looks of it, it is the 1000X. the higher amperage is good for subs, high volts for highs. they are conservative, solid, and clean in their ratings. a full, true, clean 150 watts rms is a heafty amount of power on highs. don't run a digi on highs. they are intended for subs and most digi's aren't even designed to play above 400 hz. xtant makes a little full range class D, but it does not compare to a decent class AB. let alone a great class AB. dyn also has a 3 way component set with an 8, 3, and tweet. 3" voice coils in the 8 and 3.

[slaterbj]

i was looking at getting the audiocontrol 6xs....how does the 24xs compare?
how much do you want for em?
see...the thing is...whatever i do i probably wont have em installed til next summer when i get my truck
as far as how do they fit...ive heard theyre pretty shallow...but heres a link:
http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=005212
-Cody

http://www.audiocontrol.com/MobileAudio/Products/Crossovers/24XS.html

That is the info on them. They might now work for you application, but let me know if they would work.

That car&sound link I have bookmarked. I would love to do that but I am not that brave to be cutting my doors and panels yet...

[DSZ71]

That car&sound link I have bookmarked. I would love to do that but I am not that brave to be cutting my doors and panels yet...

It seems like everyone has that thread bm'ed. I am going to get a hold of some spare door panels from a local junk yard and practice some designs and glassing.

[slaterbj]

It seems like everyone has that thread bm'ed. I am going to get a hold of some spare door panels from a local junk yard and practice some designs and glassing.

I'm guilty. Just trying to help out.

As far as the original topic. I listened to some Focal Utopias and some MB Quart Q series this weekend. I liked the laid back tweeter on the Utopias but the MB Quarts Mid was better IMO. The Focals were dang expensive too.

Another name to consider is OZ Audio. I have heard some good things about them, but never have listened to them.

[Bostonian Fats]

Will the Dyna's be able to keep up with those Brahmas? I love the dyna's but every set up I've heard they werent very loud. But they were damn fine. I'm not sure how loud you actually listen though.

IMO, DIY is the way to go. You can handsdown get better equip. I'm not sure what you mean about having or even hearing gaps in DIY setups. An active eq is so much more versatile and able to cure these problems than passive. The xover might take a big chunk of the funds but Coustic makes some of the best xovers and they're piss cheap. do a search or find Jason Winslow and ask him about A/C stuff. He's a pretty credible source I would say.

x2 on the Lotus(only because if you get it that means I can hear it)
Canton is another boxed set that is worth looking into.

I'm pretty excited that you're getting a bad ass set so i can listen to it.

[slaterbj]

Some good info here.

http://www.madisound.com/

They have all the parts. This is more of a FYI, I am sure most of you know the site pretty well. If you click on catalog then click on Seas they have a Seas Lotus component set for sale as a package. It is $830 not cheap, but should be worth it.

[DSZ71]

.

I'm pretty excited that you're getting a bad ass set so i can listen to it.

So you are using him as you guinea pig huh?

[DSZ71]

http://www.madisound.com/



Thats the link I was talking about earlier in my post above. Someone else posted that link on CS&P. Another famous website.

[95stroked1500]

[QUOTE=Bostonian Fats]Will the Dyna's be able to keep up with those Brahmas? I love the dyna's but every set up I've heard they werent very loud. But they were damn fine. I'm not sure how loud you actually listen though.

they get really loud and stay clean........if you can deliver the clean power to them. put an amp rated way above their rms on them and they kick rump. it is difficult for an amp to cleanly produce high freq towards it's top output. that's why i over amp them. i have 2 sets hooked up right now, and the amp i'm running on them is rated for 375 x 2 @ 4 ohm. so have the ability to give them 550 watts a side @ 2 ohms = 275 watts each mid and tweet. yes my amp really puts out that kind of power too.

[Exalted512]

scott replied:
"Hello:

Yes, I like the musicality of the 6 1/2" midbass more than the 8" midbass.
Oh, and you can take my advice with a grain of salt...I don't care much
about brand names, or who I tick off for telling everyone which I think is
the best (referencing the post on the forum you mentioned).

The 6 1/2" is a very fast, tight, transient midbass. I play mine down to 31
Hz. Yes, the 8" will product more low end repsonse, but its musicality
suffers hugely above 80 or 100 Hz. In fact, even DLS recognizes this, and
they are building a new 8" woofer to go with that set. It seems it might be
a yellow sandwich cone 8" midbass, similar to the 6.5" midbass in the
Ultimate Reference set.

If you wanted a set of these midbass, I have a set. You could purchase the
entire 8.3 set, minus the passive crossovers, with the upgraded midbass
through me for $850.00.

Scott"

now im not sure...i might want to get the 6.3s...bass will DEFINETELY NOT be a problem...so i might as well go with the 6.3s, save some money, save some install time, increase the SQ...
it wont look nearly as "cool" as an 8...but 'cool' is the last thing im going for in this
AHHHHH
and someone offered me the 8.3s for $640 shipped today...
ive decided to go with the iridiums...now i just dont know if i should go with the 6.3s or the 8.3s
time to go to class
-Cody

[slaterbj]

Good choice! I think I am also going with the Iridiums 6.3. Hopefully if the amp group buy gets going we can get the DLS Iridiums through Faint Reality. He is cheaper than Scott, especially because of this group buy.

[Exalted512]

ok let me write this out...maybe if i see it all instead of just thinking about it itll come clearer

first off, the plan is for the midbass whether it be 6.5 or 8 in the door, the tweeter will go in the a-pillars, and the 3" will go in the kicks...this is purely subjective but it will be a good place to start once i get them and can hear them in the truck---i might put the 3" in the stock tweeter location...but then the wavelengths would be horribly off

ok--advantages for the 6.3s:
no modification at all to the door
better SQ
cheaper

advantages of 8.3s:
more low end

i dunno...the 6.3s are looking more appealing now
and hell...if i get the 6.3s i could just fab some kicks and put everything in my current truck--then just switch everything out when i get a new truck...with the 8" ill just have to wait til i get my new truck and fab everything up
hmm...im leaning towards the 6.3s now...run them active and use a coustic or audiocontrol eqt....
id need to change my choice on amps too
ahhh....the possibilities
-Cody

[Bostonian Fats]

So you are using him as you guinea pig huh?

precisely

[Exalted512]

precisely
you wanna chip in? :smokin:
-Cody

[slaterbj]

What about putting all of them in the door like ibthumpin' did? He has a pretty sweet install gallery.

I thought about it but ended up with the tweets in the a-pillar, and I love it. The sound stage was raised when I moved the tweets up. It helped a lot.

[DSZ71]

I thought about it but ended up with the tweets in the a-pillar...


Got any pics of that? I was looking to do the same with mine. I had my tweets temporary "velcro-ed" to my sail panel in 2 positions, one facing the pass/driver in a criss-cross pattern. And the other pointing in to the window. I like the second option better. The only thing is the set didnt come with any tweeter mounting cups, so I need to make some using PVC and MDF, which is not a bad thing, just takes time. I would like to see how you did yours, and what distance you placed them at?

[Exalted512]

like i said...the wavelengths would be off if i put them in the door
thats why a-pillars/kicks seem like a more viable option
Dave--YGPM
-Cody

[DSZ71]

Here are some DYI speakers if you still want to go that route:
http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=006938

[Exalted512]

nah---im going with the 6.3s
bring on the group buy!
-Cody

[slaterbj]

nah---im going with the 6.3s
bring on the group buy!
-Cody

I agree.


D- I have to get a picture of it. I mounted them fairly low on the pillar.

[Exalted512]

I Hate Chemistry!!!!!!

[slaterbj]

I take it your class went great. Hopefully you don't need chemistry for what you plan on going into.

[Exalted512]

we dont have class...we watch class online...what kind of crap is that? we pay thousands of dollars to go to a university and we dont even get a real professor...
i was just having problems with the h/w, but i got it...and no, what ill be going into doesnt require chemistry, or cal at all...but i still have to take both :wtf:
-Cody

[slaterbj]

... cal at all...but i still have to take both :wtf:
-Cody

Are you talking about Calc? I had to take 4 calcs and differential equations to become an engineer, and I never use more than basic geometry. Talk about a waste!

[Exalted512]

yes....thats exactly what im talking about...and yes, youre exactly right...im going to be an electrical engineer...
-Cody

[slaterbj]

any thoughts on these?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LtZZOQ4QlPu/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?a=0&s=0&cc=01&g=76500&id=essential_info&i=500SPX177A

[Exalted512]

id be willing to bet the CDT 61a's are better for $150 on sounddomain...or if you want to spend a little more for the Polk/MOMOs which are $190 on sounddomain, but no, i dont have any personal experience
-Cody

[slaterbj]

id be willing to bet the CDT 61a's are better for $150 on sounddomain...or if you want to spend a little more for the Polk/MOMOs which are $190 on sounddomain, but no, i dont have any personal experience
-Cody

I would think so, but they are Alpines flagship component. I would think they would be pretty sweet. I haven't been able to find any reviews on them.

[FaintReality]

How hard would that be to fit in a NBS chevy door? I think the main problem would be the depth. For the speaker mounting I would probably use the door panel and stiffen the crap out it with fiberglass. Hopefully that would be enough.


I have no experience with the NBS, but in the OBS, you could probably get away with just a spacer. The mouting depth is tiny on my 8" mid bass. I honestly don't know though since mine are in the RSX-S, not the truck.

Dave

[FaintReality]

scott replied:
"Hello:

Yes, I like the musicality of the 6 1/2" midbass more than the 8" midbass.
Oh, and you can take my advice with a grain of salt...I don't care much
about brand names, or who I tick off for telling everyone which I think is
the best (referencing the post on the forum you mentioned).

The 6 1/2" is a very fast, tight, transient midbass. I play mine down to 31
Hz. Yes, the 8" will product more low end repsonse, but its musicality
suffers hugely above 80 or 100 Hz. In fact, even DLS recognizes this, and
they are building a new 8" woofer to go with that set. It seems it might be
a yellow sandwich cone 8" midbass, similar to the 6.5" midbass in the
Ultimate Reference set.

If you wanted a set of these midbass, I have a set. You could purchase the
entire 8.3 set, minus the passive crossovers, with the upgraded midbass
through me for $850.00.

Scott"




I would take Scott's opinion of all other being as how well he has done with the Iridiums :) I'll have to look into this new 8" mid bass... From his post, it sounds like its already available?

Dave

[Exalted512]

im not sure...they might be only available through Scott...and if you havent noticed his prices are a tad high
if you were going to install the 6.3s in the truck, how would you go about doing it?
-Cody

[DSZ71]

im not sure...they might be only available through Scott...and if you havent noticed his prices are a tad high
if you were going to install the 6.3s in the truck, how would you go about doing it?
-Cody

The person I got my A3s from can get the 8.3s for $7 bills shipped...all day...any day. If the group buy doesnt go down...hit me up and I will get you in contact with him. He is an authorized dealer/distributor and owns his own stereo shop. He can also do the 6.3s for $6 bills and the 6.2s for $5 bills shipped.

[Exalted512]

thanks DS
-Cody