What amps to go with for this setup....

[Suareezay]

Heres what im planning on putting in. Nothing fancy, just getting rid of the stock crap.
A set of ID 6.5" Chameleons
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/website/products/cxs5-web.gif
& 2 ID ID12 v3's
http://images.cardomain.net/products/ids/IDSID12V3D2_1.jpg

What amps should i go with for the components and the sub(s)? Im an audio noob and dont really anything about anything.

[DSZ71]

A 4 channel amp that will put out close to 150 watts in the front channels and a combined 300+ (depending on 2 ohm vs 4 ohm end load) on the last channels when bridged together. You might need to go with 2 separate amps though. Nice choice of equipment by the way. I think DLS makes a 4 channel amp that will do that power.

[Suareezay]

A 4 channel amp that will put out close to 150 watts in the front channels and a combined 300+ (depending on 2 ohm vs 4 ohm end load) on the last channels when bridged together. You might need to go with 2 separate amps though. Nice choice of equipment by the way. I think DLS makes a 4 channel amp that will do that power.
yea i was planning on 2 separate amps. A 4 channel for the components (and eventually some 4x10s for the cieling) and a 2/1 channel for the subs.

[nebraskaz71]

I run a jbl 600 on my id v3 subs

[DSZ71]

yea i was planning on 2 separate amps. A 4 channel for the components (and eventually some 4x10s for the cieling) and a 2/1 channel for the subs.

Okay then, look for something that will get you about 150-180 watts on the comps and 300-500 for the subs. You think you need them now, but dont waste your $$ on the rear fill. Dont be that guy! Use the $$ and put it into the amps. For some really great budget amps, look into Hifonics.

[Suareezay]

Okay then, look for something that will get you about 150-180 watts on the comps and 300-500 for the subs. You think you need them now, but dont waste your $$ on the rear fill. Dont be that guy! Use the $$ and put it into the amps. For some really great budget amps, look into Hifonics.
by rear fill do you mean the 4x10s? Ive heard some people say to just keep those stock, but i figured they were just talking out of their ass.

[DSZ71]

4x10s or 4x6s or whatever...dont use rear fill. trust me when I say your comp set will give you more than enough high end. By using rear fill you may be destroying the sound staging, drawing too much highs to the rear.

[Suareezay]

4x10s or 4x6s or whatever...dont use rear fill. trust me when I say your comp set will give you more than enough high end. By using rear fill you may be destroying the sound staging, drawing too much highs to the rear.
cool, i think i just needed to hear that from 1 more person to believe it.

[Exalted512]

its true. it also smears your detail. besides, when you go to a concert, where are the speakers? in front of you...
that and CDs are recorded in stereo, quadraphonic died out in the 70s
-Cody

[DSZ71]

quadraphonic died out in the 70s
-Cody

Hey I still have my father's 8 Track player!

[Suareezay]

ok...but i do still wonder...why would a crappy factory 4x10 speaker be better than a new aftermarket 4x10 speaker....sound is going to come out of there regardless, why not have it come out of a decent speaker? Or do you disconnect the rear speakers when you put components up front?:think:

[964x4]

I dont even think they make a decent sounding 4x10....I was "that guy" DSZ71 was talking about.
I tried replacing the stock 4x10s but no matter what i tried they always sounded like $hit.
I tried the pioneers ,the kenwoods and finally the kickers.
i ended up unplugging them ,sounded better without them imo.
BTW anybody want to buy a pair of slightly used kicker 4x10s? LOL

[Nick]

i ended up unplugging them ,sounded better without them imo.

:word: :iamwithst

[Toolman]

I have rear speakers. The reason is for my son. That way I can turn them up if the wife and I are talking. Then he can hear the music and we can talk. Most of the time the are turne down so much that you can't really hear them.

[Exalted512]

i have rear speakers, but i fade to the front. buying aftermarket speakers so youre passengers can listen to them is a waste IMO. just leave the factory ones there. take advice from someone whos done it and regrets wasting the money...
-Cody

[Suareezay]

so do you disconnect the factory speakers or no?

[Exalted512]

i have rear speakers, but i fade to the front.
-Cody.

[Nick]

i have rear speakers, but i fade to the front.
:word: :iamwithst

[Suareezay]

ok, so keep factory rear speakers and fade to the front. Cool.

Now...back to the amp question....
Now that i know i need around 150w for the components, and 500 for the subs, who makes an amp thats going to give me the best sound and bang for my buck?

[DSZ71]

ok, so keep factory rear speakers and fade to the front. Cool.

Now...back to the amp question....
Now that i know i need around 150w for the components, and 500 for the subs, who makes an amp thats going to give me the best sound and bang for my buck?

Here are some budget amps that do good numbers power wise:

Hifonics
JBL

**I would give the comps closer to 175 watts!

[DSZ71]

I would get the 2 ohm version of the comp set, that way you can get an amp that is cheaper cause it will give you the power at 2ohms, like this one:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13113

And you can always use a 2 channel amp for the subs and bridge it, that leaves you some headroom later with that amp cause you can always use it for something else later:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13114

or this mono block:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13120

Just make sure to get the right model # subs, so that you can have an end load on them that would match your amp's potential and abilities!

[DemoN]

Here are some budget amps that do good numbers power wise:

Hifonics
JBL

**I would give the comps closer to 175 watts!

i'd toss Rock fosgate and Alpine in there

[DSZ71]

Well most of the RF and Alpine amps are not really budget amp cause they cost too much. If you compare an Alpine amp with Hifonics amp of the same power ratings, and the Alpine is like 30% more $$.

[Suareezay]

I just remembered that i have a 200 or 220 watt PPI amp in my room....would this be too powerful for the comps?

Oh yea, and thanks for all the help so far guys

[Exalted512]

if its too much, turn the gain down. voila
-Cody

[DSZ71]

I just remembered that i have a 200 or 220 watt PPI amp in my room....would this be too powerful for the comps?

Oh yea, and thanks for all the help so far guys

YOu will be surprised at just how much power these comps can take. Image Dynamics is no slouch of a speaker, so you will do just fine with that combo...and PPI is no slouch either. Does the PPI do the 200 watts at 2 or 4 ohms? Cause it will be about 125-150 watts at 4 ohms if you rated the above power at 2 ohms. (its not realistically 2x the power, but close)

[Suareezay]

YOu will be surprised at just how much power these comps can take. Image Dynamics is no slouch of a speaker, so you will do just fine with that combo...and PPI is no slouch either. Does the PPI do the 200 watts at 2 or 4 ohms? Cause it will be about 125-150 watts at 4 ohms if you rated the above power at 2 ohms. (its not realistically 2x the power, but close)
To be honest i have no idea...ill have to look.

[DSZ71]

To be honest i have no idea...ill have to look.

Whats the model #?

[Suareezay]

im not at the house right now, but ill look it up when i get there.

i do have a question about ohms though....are 4ohms better than 2, or is that irelevant and you just need to match an amp with the right amount of power at a certain # of ohms to the correct speaker?

[DSZ71]

i do have a question about ohms though....are 4ohms better than 2, or is that irelevant and you just need to match an amp with the right amount of power at a certain # of ohms to the correct speaker?

If you think of ohm's as resistance, and the higher the rating, the more the resistance. Sooo if you have an amp that is stable (not all are!) into 2 ohms, then your amp is able to produce more power because there is less resistance on the outflow of watts. Some amps can only be bridged into a 4 ohm load. Most MONO amps are capable of doing 1 ohm or even 0.5 ohms depending on the amp.

[99Z71Hoe]

Sounddomain has some pretty good prices on the MTX amps, 502 125w x 2 for $190 and 942 235w x 2 for $310. I don't know much about audio, but those seemed like pretty good prices.

[DSZ71]

MTX is decent stuff.

[Suareezay]

If you think of ohm's as resistance, and the higher the rating, the more the resistance. Sooo if you have an amp that is stable (not all are!) into 2 ohms, then your amp is able to produce more power because there is less resistance on the outflow of watts. Some amps can only be bridged into a 4 ohm load. Most MONO amps are capable of doing 1 ohm or even 0.5 ohms depending on the amp.
So should i go with 2ohm speakers and 2 ohm amps?

[excelerater]

comps are 4ohms

[DSZ71]

comps are 4ohms

Image Dynamics makes the comp set in either config...2 AND 4 ohm...CSX62/CXS64 models

[Suareezay]

Image Dynamics makes the comp set in either config...2 AND 4 ohm...CSX62/CXS64 models
i thought so

[DSZ71]

So should i go with 2ohm speakers and 2 ohm amps?

I would say to get the comps in 2 ohm version and the subs, well you will need to decide on what amp you want to use (if its stable at 4ohm vs 2ohm, vs 1ohm) and then match your subs to that. You can wire your subs differently to get an end load to match your amp. Like this:

A pair if 2 ohm, dual voice coil subs
http://images.cardomain.net/sites/sounddomain/shop/woofer_wizard/2_2ohm_dvc.gif

Or, a pair of 4 ohm, dual voice subs
http://images.cardomain.net/sites/sounddomain/shop/woofer_wizard/2_4ohm_dvc.gif

Depending on what you find out about your PPI amp you have, you can either choose to use it on your comps or for your subs, but you need to match what your amp can do impedence-wise (ohms) to the sub configuration.

[Suareezay]

ok, i think this is the amp i have....would it be enough power for the 6.5" components at 2 ohms?
http://www.epinions.com/pr-PPI_PPI2120_Car_Audio_Amplifier/display_~full_specs

[DSZ71]

That amp only does 60 watts a channel. Dump it and get something bigger.

[FaintReality]

I have a brand new DLS a5 amp I will sell you. Its a 3 channel amp, in which it will do 100w + at 2ohms (get the ID comps in the 2ohm version) and will do 780w + at 1ohm for the sub channel (get a pair of 4ohm DVC drivers).

Pics and specs here: http://www.dls.se/english/fstark/a5n.htm

PM me if interested!

Dave

[excelerater]

why would any one want 2ohm comps?

[Exalted512]

to save money because you wont need as big an amp
-Cody

[Suareezay]

so 2 ohm comps arent that great? if i supply them with enough power would they sound the same as correctly powered 4 ohm comps? or should i just get the comps in 4 ohms and get a bigger amp?

[Exalted512]

well, technically amps have more distortion when running at a lower load, but with any good amp, the difference will not be noticed by the human ear. ID makes good stuff, if there was a problem with running 2 ohm comps. then they wouldnt make em. i say snag em and save some $$ on the amp.
-Cody

[DSZ71]

well, technically amps have more distortion when running at a lower load, but with any good amp, the difference will not be noticed by the human ear. ID makes good stuff, if there was a problem with running 2 ohm comps. then they wouldnt make em. i say snag em and save some $$ on the amp.
-Cody

Precisely, normally the higher the ohm rating the cleaner the sound, thats why most home systems are 8 and 16 ohm. But Cody is right, with the IDs you cant tell the difference. I had a pair of the 2ohm ID comps running off of an Arc Audio 2100cxl (180 watts per channel) and the thing kicked ass with no distortion at all!

I would hit up Faintreality on the DLS Ultimate A5 amp, very efficient and clean power. Hmm makes me think, I can use one in the wife's Yukon and sell the Autotek 4 channel I have...she is gonna kill me if I spend more $$, but its a better amp anyway.

[Suareezay]

would faintreality's amp run the subs and comps or just the comps?

[FaintReality]

would faintreality's amp run the subs and comps or just the comps?



The DLS a5 is a 3 channel amp so it will run everything.

channels 1/2 would run your ID CXS62 comps (2ohm version), giving them a solid 100 + watts. The 3rd channel is a mono channel, in which you could wire up a pair of the 2ohm DVC subs in series/parallel to present the amp with a 2ohm load, which will give you 500w (250w per sub) for the subs. Being that the ID12v3's are rated at 250w rms, the above would be perfect. If you did want to give them more power, the 3rd channel of the a5 is 1ohm stable, in which you could get a pair of the 4ohm DVC subs and wire them in parallel to present the amp with a 1ohm load, which will give your subs ~780w.

Dave

[neptune1230]

if you want to retain the rear speakers, take out the metal panel holding them up (above headliner). Once you have the plate out you can cut new holes for at least 5x7's, which now gives you a greater choice of speakers. I did this to my 'hoe and it worked out great. It is all about personal preference, whatever floats your boat...good luck

[DSZ71]

5x7s in the rear? With the setup he has listed, NO NEED for them.

Squareezy....the DLS amp will be perfect....

[Suareezay]

lets say i did use this amp, which would sound better for the subs
1. 2ohm subs at 2ohms for 500w

or

2. 4ohm subs at 1ohm for ~780w

[DSZ71]

lets say i did use this amp, which would sound better for the subs
1. 2ohm subs at 2ohms for 500w

or

2. 4ohm subs at 1ohm for ~780w

With the Image Dynamics 12" subs, get the 4 ohm version and wire it down to 1 ohm end load. You will be happy with the 780 watts! And coming from the DLS amps, it will be clean, efficient power.