Ls1 or lt1

[MasonB]

I'm thinking about putting a ls1 or lt1 in my 96 exsb, I'm trying to find out which one is better for me:think: opinions are appreciated

[MasonB]

can you get just as much power out of a lt1 as you can ls1 and is the ls1 firing system that much better than the lt1

[Jameslleary]

can you get just as much power out of a lt1 as you can ls1 and is the ls1 firing system that much better than the lt1

LT1 would be going backwards in my opinion, and there is, and will be more aftermarket support for the LS1....My vote is Ls.

[MasonB]

I have a 5.7 350 vortec in my truck now but its getting tired from hard use will the ls1 hold up to as much as my current motor has and whats the stock hp and ft lbs of torque for both if any body knows some one said the vortec had 260

[Slammed96]

The LS1 will hold up very well to abuse. Or if you want to spend a little less money you could go with a 5.3 or 6.0, which are the same design as an LS1 but are cast iron and so will stand up to a bit more abuse. Also all parts from the LS1 will bolt right up to them. If you decide to go this route I would suggest checking out ls1truck.com, the guys on there do this swap all the time and will be able to answer pretty much any question you may have.

[6789olds]

my vote would be a 6.0 with bolt ons and a good tune and mild stall converter would be a mean truck .

[DentoTheMenace]

a bit of input from someone having done an LT1 swap:

its easy. most everything bolts up or needs very minimal modding to fit. since you already have a vortec, you don't have to upgrade your fuel system (not sure if it would be enough to feed a 6.0). the optispark is in a odd place and usually hard to get at in a camaro (how optisparks get the bad rep) but in a pickup its a breeze to get at and they are EXTREMELY accurate. the reverse flow cooling works almost too well. i started to drive it before i finished getting my gauges to work and never knew i was driving around in 90+ degree weather with no working fans due to me knocking something loose. also, LT1s were designed to take a beating. they came in camaros, vettes, taxis and polices cars... all vehicles that get driven like they were stolen.. and like it. most generally, they are good up to about 6k. repeatedly breaking that barrier will cause problems unless you build for it. but unless you are talking about small dohc/qohc engines, how often to do really rev past 6k? aftermarket parts are cheap and plentiful with the LT1 being a bit aged and in a very popular car to mod. tuner programs are FREE and you can flash/reflash/scan/datalogger as many times as you want from your laptop and a $60 usb cable. want a tune? email a tuner with your base tune. he emails it back, you flash it to your pcm, drive it while running a datalogger, send the log back, get the new adjusted tune and then have fun. i could go on.. but you get the point. LT1s are no slouch and a potent platform to work with.

on to a 6.0...
yes, its "better". you can get more power and get it more easily with a 6.0 than a LT1. i don't know the ins and outs of that swap, so i can't comment on mounts/exhaust/wiring/fueling.

all that being said, you need to ask yourself "how much power do i want?" and be realistic. sure 600 rwhp sounds really nice and makes your buddies drool when you tell them about your plans.. but do you know what it takes to get there and not have it die roadside daily? depending on your answer, i would look at like this.

HP wanted ----------- engine ----------- mods to get to max hp
250-350 ----------- vortec 350 --------- cam/exhaust/tune/++++*
300-500 ----------- LT1 ------------- same +headwork**
325-? ------------ lq4/9 6.0 ---------- same + ? ***

* 350 is about the limit of a vortec's fueling systems capacity due to the one-size-fits-all poppet injectors. you can get around this will a ram jet intake or a marine vortec intake. they use a common drop in style injector like the TPI, LT1s, and LS series engines available in a variety of #psi.
** stock lt1 cranks are good up to about 600hp, more than that is a gamble according to the pros that race in the LTx ShootOut every year. stock intake/injectors are good up to 450hp. basically good headers, a healthy cam, a good tune will get you into the 375-425 range easily. want more? get some good headwork done and you'll be close to 500hp.
*** as i stated earlier, i don't really know much about upgrading a 6.0, but it should be the same principle. bigger is usually better and getting it breathe better will make more power.

so figure out how power you want and find out what engine gets you there easiest. this is where good builds go bad, not having a final goal your working towards.

[Badass69]

The LS engine is superior to the Gen 1/2 engines in almost every single aspect. The bottom ends make the Gen 1 look pretty mickey mouse ( which they are, and unless it's an LT1 from a Vette it's just a run of the mill 2 bolt block). The heads on an LS have flow and drivability capability that Gen 1's will never achieve, mostly from being stuck with the 23 degree valve angle.

If you are upgrading the cost difference is minimal enough now there is no reason to use the older style engines at all. Pick up an LQ4 6 liter cheap ( they are everywhere in 3/4 tons and up), cam it, tune it and have some fun.

Just search around for guys with pictures and step by steps of their LS engine swaps. I wouldn't bother with an actual LS1, waste of money with a bore smaller than 4". 6 liters are cheap and make really good power. LQ4's were 325 Hp and 360 lb ft stock. LQ9's ( only single engine difference is a flat top piston, everything else is equal in the 05 and up LQ4's, otherwise just tuning) made 345 hp and 380 lb ft. Even just tuning can jump those numbers fairly significantly, especially the LQ4 as they are very detuned from the factory for safety in a heavy truck.

LS1truck is another website you can check out that has step by steps into the T400 trucks. GreenVortec here dumped a 5.3 into his 97, hit him up for some info.

Simple Green did as well but an older pre OBD 2 truck is different as far as wiring goes.

[Slammed96]

Also to swap in a 6.0 or any Gen III engine, because you have a 96 Vortec, your fuel pump will deliver the needed fuel for the engine (60psi) all you will need to do to swap in the new engine is modify the existing wiring harness to accept the new engine and computer (computer will need tuned) depending on what you want exhaust wise you have plenty of room to work with, your transmission should bolt right up, however you will need a flex plate spacer, you will need to install a 99+ Vette fuel filter/regulator, and you will need motor mount adaptors. I may be missing something in there, but that is the majority of what the swap should entail. Also Badass69 is right in the superiority of the LS engines, they are overall more powerful and efficient then their predecessors.

[GreenVortec]

Also to swap in a 6.0 or any Gen III engine, because you have a 96 Vortec, your fuel pump will deliver the needed fuel for the engine (60psi) all you will need to do to swap in the new engine is modify the existing wiring harness to accept the new engine and computer (computer will need tuned) depending on what you want exhaust wise you have plenty of room to work with, your transmission should bolt right up, however you will need a flex plate spacer, you will need to install a 99+ Vette fuel filter/regulator, and you will need motor mount adaptors. I may be missing something in there, but that is the majority of what the swap should entail. Also Badass69 is right in the superiority of the LS engines, they are overall more powerful and efficient then their predecessors.

96-98 vortecs have a feed and return line, the ones that need a vette filter are the tbi trucks because of the single feed.
Also, i've rode in an lt1 swapped truck before i did my swap.. not really that much better than a hopped up 5.7 vortec.
LS engines are way better by far

[bigbob6988]

Is this a joke? Gen III engine all the way!

[ls6firebird]

what are ur goals with the truck? is it a daily driver? what kind of mods do u plan on doing to the motor? either way i would go with an ls motor, but a 5.3 or 6.0 may be a better option as mentioned above. im getting ready to swap a 5.3 in my 90 silverado

[scottcleaver]

Why not go with the LS? New technology and easy hp.

[Tony 2-Tone]

Subscribed for info, thinking about the same swap for my Suburban.

[MasonB]

Im hoping to get at lest 480 hp to the rear wheels mainly just for a jump in and lay some rubber

[Jeff6.0]

Im hoping to get at lest 480 hp to the rear wheels mainly just for a jump in and lay some rubber

480 HP? Okay, you can do that. How would you like to do it for less than $4000?

http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild/116_0704_lq4_short_block/index.html ... Read Me!

Don't bother with the LT1 or the LS1 (unless the LS1 is given to you). Go buy an 2005 and up LQ4.

Edit: bad link but i fixed it i think

[MasonB]

So the LQ4 is like a mix of old school and genIII? The pic i saw had a 4 bold main with old style intake and carb with the coil pack for each cylinder instead of a distributor blaster coil like on the older GenI

[Jeff6.0]

So the LQ4 is like a mix of old school and genIII? The pic i saw had a 4 bold main with old style intake and carb with the coil pack for each cylinder instead of a distributor blaster coil like on the older GenI

If you’re talking about the picture in the article, the removed the fuel injection and went with a carbureted set up for some power on the cheap.

[MasonB]

do you have on of these motors in your ride?

[Jeff6.0]

yes sir.

[Badass69]

Im hoping to get at lest 480 hp to the rear wheels mainly just for a jump in and lay some rubber

480 HP to the tires won't happen with a cam/ bolt on LQ4, crankshaft maybe, wheels no. You need heads, cam, intake manifold, injectors, throttle body and some good tuning. It's more like $5000 in parts for the top end give or take a couple hundred dollars. Stuff adds up fast when you start considering bolts, gaskets, hardware, oil pump, timing chain, etc etc. That's roughly my goal with my LQ9 for in my 94 naturally aspirated and it's attainable as it's been done.......

[ls6firebird]

480 HP to the tires won't happen with a cam/ bolt on LQ4, crankshaft maybe, wheels no. You need heads, cam, intake manifold, injectors, throttle body and some good tuning. It's more like $5000 in parts for the top end give or take a couple hundred dollars. Stuff adds up fast when you start considering bolts, gaskets, hardware, oil pump, timing chain, etc etc. That's roughly my goal with my LQ9 for in my 94 naturally aspirated and it's attainable as it's been done.......

what kind of lower budget parts would you recommend him using on a 6.0? i havent been around many n/a 6.0 builds.

ls6 intake: ~$300?
ported/milled 799 or 243 heads: $500-800? guess that depends on how much work is done on them. but those heads can be picked up cheap

i was just wondering because my firebird is around 420rwhp with an ls6. just a few bolt ons, stock 243 heads, and cam. so i was thinkin that with a 6.0 he should be able to get close to 480. i may be way off lol, just wanted to see what you thought

[Zero260]

what kind of lower budget parts would you recommend him using on a 6.0? i havent been around many n/a 6.0 builds.

ls6 intake: ~$300?
ported/milled 799 or 243 heads: $500-800? guess that depends on how much work is done on them. but those heads can be picked up cheap

i was just wondering because my firebird is around 420rwhp with an ls6. just a few bolt ons, stock 243 heads, and cam. so i was thinkin that with a 6.0 he should be able to get close to 480. i may be way off lol, just wanted to see what you thought

One thing to remember...cheap, fast, reliable....pick 2. Putting power down in the neighborhood of 500 rwhp is hard to do cheaply. But cheap is relative.

Honestly, I think he'd have a better daily driver building the 6.0 into a 408.

I'd try hand ported/cnc'd 241s (cheaper than 243's), TBSS intake, 1-7/8 primary headers (not budget), at least a mid 230s cam. At least 42# injectors. Probably bigger.

The only problem is that is going to eat 4l60E's. Unless you throw some serious money into a built one. I'd still be worried about it. IMO, go with a 4l80e. That is going to suck up some power. So I'd throw a shot of dope on it also.

Big power N/A is pretty cool. I'd just rather go with FI to make that power. In the long run, it's more cost effective and ALOT more streetable.

[Slammed96]

Definitely go with an 80e if you plan on putting down that kind of power. Or if it will see more track time or city driving you could also consider a TH350 or 400, but then you would lose the option of overdrive. If you go EFI with it, a good tune with all your bolt ons will also help get you a bit more power and also drivability.

[Tony 2-Tone]

The Gen III swap is so tempting but it looks like such a PITA.

[Zero260]

Definitely go with an 80e if you plan on putting down that kind of power. Or if it will see more track time or city driving you could also consider a TH350 or 400, but then you would lose the option of overdrive. If you go EFI with it, a good tune with all your bolt ons will also help get you a bit more power and also drivability.

really no good reason to give up overdrive. 80e is just as strong as 400 ever had time to be

[ls6firebird]

One thing to remember...cheap, fast, reliable....pick 2. Putting power down in the neighborhood of 500 rwhp is hard to do cheaply. But cheap is relative.

Honestly, I think he'd have a better daily driver building the 6.0 into a 408.

I'd try hand ported/cnc'd 241s (cheaper than 243's), TBSS intake, 1-7/8 primary headers (not budget), at least a mid 230s cam. At least 42# injectors. Probably bigger.

The only problem is that is going to eat 4l60E's. Unless you throw some serious money into a built one. I'd still be worried about it. IMO, go with a 4l80e. That is going to suck up some power. So I'd throw a shot of dope on it also.

Big power N/A is pretty cool. I'd just rather go with FI to make that power. In the long run, it's more cost effective and ALOT more streetable.

yea, but theres a difference between cheap and budget. i agree with you tho. the tbss intake is a good idea, i'll have to look into that for my build. i was throwin the ls6 intake out there b/c thats a common upgrade on the ls1's.

personally, i would prefer the 243s unless on a serious budget. i would rather have 5.3 heads than 241s. lot of options in that area tho

[MasonB]

how do you like it? do you know your time in the quarter mile?

[Pauly]

The Gen III swap is so tempting but it looks like such a PITA.
Its not any more difficult than an LT1 swap would be.

Since this is a 1996 truck, I wouldnt even consider the LT1. It would either be Vortec 350/383/396 or a GEN 3 engine, either 6.0 or LS1 5.7.
The LT1 and L31 have the same port design, with teh stockL31 heads doing better than the aluminumLT1 heads.

Its tough to stay away from GEN 3 stuff in a performance application. I can see why some folks avoid the newer stuff in a low throttle towing situation.

peace
PAuly

[DentoTheMenace]

Its not any more difficult than an LT1 swap would be.

Since this is a 1996 truck, I wouldnt even consider the LT1. It would either be Vortec 350/383/396 or a GEN 3 engine, either 6.0 or LS1 5.7.
The LT1 and L31 have the same port design, with teh stockL31 heads doing better than the aluminumLT1 heads.

Its tough to stay away from GEN 3 stuff in a performance application. I can see why some folks avoid the newer stuff in a low throttle towing situation.

peace
PAuly

aren't the b-body iron LT1 heads the same as L31's except for cooling passages, both flowing better than the alum LT1 heads mainly on the exhaust side? aside from the main differences of reverse cooling, fuel delivery and funky distributor, aren't they pretty much the same engines?

i guess what i'm getting at is while i agree that gen3 is the best platform to work with at the moment, you can't honestly write off the LT1 completely. it has its place. if you already have a 5.7 Vortec, then no, an LT1 swap isn't practical. jumping up to a 6.0 would be the only way to go imo. i wouldn't touch a 5.3 either as its a marginal gain over a 5.7 vortec or lt1. BUT, if you have a 4.3 of anykind or a 305/350 TBI, the LT1 is a great place to start if you are looking to make decent power without spending all kinds of cash. i literally have $60 into the engine/trans/wiring/ecm/rad/efans in my truck after ebaying trinkets and selling the donor car's carcass to the scrapyard.


i'm willing to go through all my receipts and tally up what it cost to swap in my LT1 if some of the people who have done LS swaps do the same. the purpose of these tallies isn't who spent the most/least, but an average cost of completing an engine swap for people, like the OP, who are thinking about starting a project like this. actually... Pauly, if you would like to share the approx cost of your setup, i think that would be valuable info as well. between the ave cost of engine swaps vs rebuild/upgrade, it would give a pretty accurate picture of what each swap/upgrades costs and what can be achieved from them.

[Pauly]

aren't the b-body iron LT1 heads the same as L31's except for cooling passages, both flowing better than the alum LT1 heads mainly on the exhaust side? aside from the main differences of reverse cooling, fuel delivery and funky distributor, aren't they pretty much the same engines?

i guess what i'm getting at is while i agree that gen3 is the best platform to work with at the moment, you can't honestly write off the LT1 completely. it has its place. if you already have a 5.7 Vortec, then no, an LT1 swap isn't practical. jumping up to a 6.0 would be the only way to go imo. i wouldn't touch a 5.3 either as its a marginal gain over a 5.7 vortec or lt1. BUT, if you have a 4.3 of anykind or a 305/350 TBI, the LT1 is a great place to start if you are looking to make decent power without spending all kinds of cash. i literally have $60 into the engine/trans/wiring/ecm/rad/efans in my truck after ebaying trinkets and selling the donor car's carcass to the scrapyard.


i'm willing to go through all my receipts and tally up what it cost to swap in my LT1 if some of the people who have done LS swaps do the same. the purpose of these tallies isn't who spent the most/least, but an average cost of completing an engine swap for people, like the OP, who are thinking about starting a project like this. actually... Pauly, if you would like to share the approx cost of your setup, i think that would be valuable info as well. between the ave cost of engine swaps vs rebuild/upgrade, it would give a pretty accurate picture of what each swap/upgrades costs and what can be achieved from them.
yes the Vortec ports are based of the LT1 ports, mainly the iron B-body version. The point was,swapping from a Vortec to the LT1 wasnt a huge step.
the B-body LT1 and L31 even share the same camshaft.B-body LT1 260p,330lb/ft L31 255hp/330 lb/ft. They are basically the same in many respects.
Even if he had a Vortec 4.3 L35 V6, I would still go L31 based over any LT1 engine. Bolt in the L31 based engine, flash in a V8 calibration into the V6 PCM, run 2 grounds and 2power wires for the extra 2 injectors and away you go.

I am running a bone stock L31 350, boltons, PCM tune, 4.3 V6 trans and TC(2800rpm stall), hybrid K&N FIPK/custom air intake, LT Hooker headers, dual 2 1.2"exhaust and the marine intake($1000). An LT1andL31 in the same vehicle will run very similar times.

peace
Pauly

[Badass69]

The OP has stated he already has a 350 Vortec in his truck. A body LT1 will be absolutely zero gain in performance except the loss because the current 350 sounds to not be performing anymore. What I am saying is a new L31 will be just as fast as a stock healthy B body LT1 is. I do know first hand because I used to own both a 350 Vortec truck ( low mile 3.73 geared 96 2wd) and a 9C1 Caprice. The truck honestly felt stronger stock to stock with the deeper gearing than the Caprice did. Once I tuned and geared the Caprice that changed but tuning the truck would have kept up with it. Pauly is correct on the camshaft being the same and GM used the B body LT1 head as a template for the Vortec version in the trucks.

If you are still considering an LT1...... even the aluminum head version( that the heads flow poorer than the cast iron ones do) for that matter, just buy a new L31 longblock and dump it in. Cheaper and far simpler as no swapping required.

[Tony 2-Tone]

Its not any more difficult than an LT1 swap would be.

Since this is a 1996 truck, I wouldnt even consider the LT1. It would either be Vortec 350/383/396 or a GEN 3 engine, either 6.0 or LS1 5.7.
The LT1 and L31 have the same port design, with teh stockL31 heads doing better than the aluminumLT1 heads.

Its tough to stay away from GEN 3 stuff in a performance application. I can see why some folks avoid the newer stuff in a low throttle towing situation.

peace
PAuly

Well, I know the mechanical portion of the swap wasn't bad, but the wiring is my concern.

[MasonB]

yea but cant you just get a painless wiring harness and be done with that part of it?

[Slammed96]

If you get a harness and computer with the new engine there are several places that will modify it to work with the pre existing truck harness. Or if you really wanted you could go through and do it all yourself...

[DentoTheMenace]

wiring isn't that bad doing it yourself. i used www.lt1swap.com but i'm pretty sure they cover LS wiring as well. i'm almost finished with another engine swap, putting a newer toyota v6 into an older 4runner. that swap is going to end up with about 21 splices. big thing is understanding how to read the wiring diagrams AND to get the correct info. after that, its just connecting the dots.

[darknate]

you can make stupid power out of an ls engine very easily. with a 6.0, you can bolt on some ls6 heads (ls2 for less money), gm hot cam or an slp cam, some headers, l92 intake (to clear the radiator and fan). youll get tons of low end power and a good top end. if you want better mileage, more low end power with loss of top end then go with a '02-'04 corvette cam (its different from the other years cuz it had to cut power from ls6 parts used on the ls1).

[GreenVortec]

You don't even have to use the ls6 cam, it's junk, there are better choices out there for cams in a 6.0. And an lq9 + l92 top end = 500 crank ponies.
Sbc engines ain't **** compared to LS engines. Especially for the price