3/4 ton conversion?

[89red]

I have a 1989 1/2 ton, normally i'm hauling car haulers around a couple times a week, the 350 has no problems with it and the 700r4 does ok if you keep in in D, my problem is the suspension, it gets sacked out quite easily with even a small car on the back, i was thinking of adding a leaf, or even just bolting in leafs from a 3/4 ton.. can this be done? any suggestions?

[jwstewar]

I'm towing a Jayco 32 BHDS (36'5" long) with my '99 1500 ECSB 4x4. I swapped the rear springs for a set off a 2500HD. It helped, but by no means did it (or did I expect it to make) the truck a 3/4 ton. It helped some with the sway, that being said, as soon as money allows, I will be upgrading to a 3500 SRW. As far as the swap, it was a fairly easy swap. Just had to cut the front left bolt off because of the way GM put it in had they put it in the other way, it would have come out w/o cutting. Then I had to have longer u-bolts made by a local spring company. I wouldn't think a OBS would be any different.

[89red]

Thanks for the quick reply, looks like ill have to take a trip to the wrecker

[kcb37]

I will completely agree with what he said.
Nothing you can do to that truck will make it a 3/4 ton. You can put 3/4 ton springs in it, but you really need a 3/4 ton truck.

[JohnnyU]

Air bags and/or 3/4 springs will bring the rear ride height up during hauling or towing, however the safest (read:smartest) thing to follow that up with is a 3/4 or 1 ton braking system.

[kcb37]

Trying to upgrade a 1/2ton to a 3/4 is not safe or smart period.
Upgrading a 1/2 ton to carry an acceptable weight is.
Upgrading springs, brakes, sway bars, engine power, trans cooling, trans strength will make it seem like it can handle the same as a 3/4 ton.
However it will still be a 1/2 ton with 1/2 ton axles (yes you can swap in a 14 sf or ff) but even then you still have a 1/2 ton frame.
No matter what you do you cannot safely or smartly upgrade to a heavier truck without buying that heavier truck. Period.
Having said that I will restate that you can upgrade your current truck to make it pull/handle/stop better. This is a great thing for the weights a 1/2 ton should have, same deal for 3/4 and 1 ton.

[nine5yukon]

gm makes what they call a "heavy half", look it up. its a half ton obs truck with 3/4 ton 14 bolt sf rear axle and springs with six lug rotors for the front. its is perfectly safe and can be considered a OEM swap, at least its a factory option.

to say you can not upgrade, shows what you know...

keep an eye on my signature as i will be upgrading my work truck soon.

[someotherguy]

People call it that but it's just a 1500 with heavy duty suspension; the front brakes which are the majority of your stopping power are the EXACT SAME SIZE as 1500 brakes just 6 lug instead of 5 lug. The rear brakes are larger due to running the 14 bolt rear end but that's it. A 1500 with HD suspension, or a 2500LD, are just barely more capable than a 1500...not to be confused with a regular 2500 truck. The difference is so minimal there's no reason to go through the work/expense of "upgrading" - if you think it's a significant improvement other than the strength of the 14 bolt compared to 10 bolt, you're kidding yourself.

FYI my daily is a 2500LD.

Richard

[Quyonmob]

People call it that but it's just a 1500 with heavy duty suspension; the front brakes which are the majority of your stopping power are the EXACT SAME SIZE as 1500 brakes just 6 lug instead of 5 lug. The rear brakes are larger due to running the 14 bolt rear end but that's it. A 1500 with HD suspension, or a 2500LD, are just barely more capable than a 1500...not to be confused with a regular 2500 truck. The difference is so minimal there's no reason to go through the work/expense of "upgrading" - if you think it's a significant improvement other than the strength of the 14 bolt compared to 10 bolt, you're kidding yourself.

FYI my daily is a 2500LD.

Richard

^what he said. No point in me being a parrot. :D

[kcb37]

nine5yukon
I never said you cannot upgrade, matter of fact if you actually read my post I stated it can be a good idea. But trying to upgrade a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton cannot be done and is completely unsafe.
The only "upgraded" 1/2 ton I would actually use is a 3/4 ton with a 1/2 ton body.
Other then that 14bt sf or ff you still have a 1/2 ton frame.
So no you still cannot upgrade to a 3/4 ton without buying a 3/4 ton.

[ToyHauler]

it seems a common misconception that ALL hd chassis 1500 had 14bolt and 6lugs which is not the case. my 2wd 89 had the hd chassis and had a 10 bolt , 5lug wheels, hd springs, wider rotors, bigger spindles and bearings. it would be a guess but maybe the difference is earlier vs later obs or 4wd but i dont know that i just know what i had.

to the op if you can find rear springs for a truck like i had, it hauled 6000 camper just fine with a 350 and 5spd

[adam728]

I have a 1989 1/2 ton, normally i'm hauling car haulers around a couple times a week, the 350 has no problems with it and the 700r4 does ok if you keep in in D, my problem is the suspension, it gets sacked out quite easily with even a small car on the back, i was thinking of adding a leaf, or even just bolting in leafs from a 3/4 ton.. can this be done? any suggestions?

What kind of weight are we talking?

Are we within the limits of the 1/2 ton truck's capacity, just that you want it to sag less? In that case, throw in some air bags, an add-a-leaf, or a new spring pack.

Are you towing too much with it and trying to beef the truck up to handle it? Time to buy a new truck....


Like kcb37 has been saying, you can't really upgrade from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton with just component swaps. Frame, brakes, rear axle, bearings, transmission, often oil cooler & radiator, etc etc is all beefier on the heavier trucks. My 92 C2500 weighs more than my 92 K1500 work truck did, despite one being 4wd.....(both regular cab long beds, tow package, etc)

[someotherguy]

it seems a common misconception that ALL hd chassis 1500 had 14bolt and 6lugs which is not the case. my 2wd 89 had the hd chassis and had a 10 bolt , 5lug wheels, hd springs, wider rotors, bigger spindles and bearings. it would be a guess but maybe the difference is earlier vs later obs or 4wd but i dont know that i just know what i had.
No misconception, just no point in describing every possible variation when the real point is, he's not going to make a real 3/4 ton out of a 1/2 ton.

It is correct that a 2WD 1500, 1500 w/HD package, or a 2500LD would be 5 lug...and would be 6 lug if it's 4WD. Then again the 4WD would be 6 lug whether it were a plain 1500, 1500 with HD package, or 2500LD anyway.

Richard

[speedracer326]

Last 2500LD I saw in the JY was 6 lug, not a 5. On an OBS, if you're willing to do the 8 lug swap, hydroboost, 4L80E, fluid coolers, etc there's no reason why it can't be a 3/4 ton. It's not like NBS and newer where the HD's have a completely different frame. The only frame difference that I'm aware of on the OBS's are that the UCR mounting ears are taller on HD's and the front diff mounts are different. People say they're thicker, but they're not. I've seen a zillion 3500's in the JY whose frames were the exact same thickness as my half ton. A lot on here will disagree, but if you're not exceeding the weight limit any of bearings, brakes, springs, and your truck aptly handles its load, I see no danger. *dons flame suit*

[someotherguy]

Last 2500HD I saw in the JY was 6 lug. On an OBS, if you're willing to do the 8 lug swap, hydroboost, 4L80E, fluid coolers, etc there's no reason why it can't be a 3/4 ton. It's not like NBS and newer where the HD's have a completely different frame. The only frame difference that I'm aware of on the OBS's are that the UCR mounting ears are taller on HD's and the front diff mounts are different. People say they're thicker, but they're not. I've seen a zillion 3500's in the JY whose frames were the exact same thickness as my half ton. A lot on here will disagree, but if you're not exceeding the weight limit any of bearings, brakes, springs, and your truck aptly handles its load, I see no danger. *dons flame suit*
If you saw what you think was a "2500HD" and it was 6 lug, I'd have to ask what year it was, and what you consider "HD" - if you mean GMT400, aka "OBS", then there are two flavors of 2500 - 2500 "light duty" which is 7200lb GVWR, 6 lug and essentially a 1500 with a better rear axle and a little extra spring, and there's the 2500 "heavy duty" which is 8 lug, and 8600lb GVWR. They are very different suspension and brake-wise.

There are extra supports, gussets, etc. in the suspension mounting between the two 2500's. Pretend it's "converted" all you want, you would have to change/add so many things you would be money and work ahead just buying the truck you need instead of hacking it together and still coming out with less.

Richard

[speedracer326]

Calm down there turbo, I meant LD. I'm quite aware of the different GVWR's. So where are the extra supports, gussets, etc? I've asked this before but nobody ever says exactly what they are or show pics. I mentioned the 8 lug above, as that would include said larger brakes, but I left out the fact that it isn't worth it in the end. Now if he's seeking that 7200# GVWR all he needs is to make sure, since his is an '89, that he gets the larger front brakes found on the extended cabs if his is not, get the 14BSF and leaf pack from an LD2500 and he done assuming brake master cylinders and prop valves are the same. IIRC the 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton ratings are a letter in the VIN and you can't get a modified door sticker from GM, but the truck would be equipped as GM saw fit to label as 7200# GVWR truck. That's enough for most and would definitely get the OP by. I'd throw some hydroboost in the mix and call it a day unless he's ready to spring for a new truck. The only 3/4 ton I'd ever buy is a DMax ($$$ so not gonna happen) unless I somehow got my hands on the uber rare 2500 XCSB OBS and I can count on 1 hand how many 8 luggers of those I've seen in my life. Even empty the 1/2 ton brakes suck, so hydroboost should be at the top of the list even to stay under the 10,700# GCWR published by Chevy. Has anyone ever noticed that Chevy's OBS trailer tow ratings are base off of pulling power alone? My owner's manual rates the 2WD with 5.7 to pull more than the heavier 1 ton with a 5.7. Just thought I'd muddy the waters a little.

[someotherguy]

I took a pile of pics and measurements of different model frames when I had my salvage yard, but honestly, doesn't matter if I ever posted them - people will do things like say "Last 2500HD I saw in the JY was 6 lug" then get mad when I correct them. :D Bad info perpetuates on the 'net as easily as good info, so who cares.

I'll say it again, my daily is a 2500LD. In no way do I think it's nearly as capable as a regular 2500, and wouldn't consider that upgrading a 1500 to 2500LD parts is a significant advantage and absolutely not in the same class as a regular 2500. BUY THE TRUCK YOU NEED, and improve upon that if necessary, but trying to hack a much lighter duty truck into something stronger is a losing proposition.

Richard

[speedracer326]

There's a 1000# difference in GVWR between a 1500 and LD2500 by simply swapping an axle and leaf pack, I consider that a pretty good bang for the buck when you figure bigger brakes out back come with it. If you're only ever going to pull 5-6k on a flatbed car hauler, I just don't see the need for a 3/4 ton if you already own a 1/2 ton. My truck with the 10 bolt setup took a 5k trailer nicely, you could hardly tell it was there. That's why I think a 2500LD is really what the half ton should have been, it's got that extra little bit so now 6k feels like nothing's back there. Isn't that all the OP is trying to pull?

[bowtieguy101]

nine5yukon
I never said you cannot upgrade, matter of fact if you actually read my post I stated it can be a good idea. But trying to upgrade a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton cannot be done and is completely unsafe.
The only "upgraded" 1/2 ton I would actually use is a 3/4 ton with a 1/2 ton body.
Other then that 14bt sf or ff you still have a 1/2 ton frame.
So no you still cannot upgrade to a 3/4 ton without buying a 3/4 ton.

You and I tend to agree alot here in the towing section.

You have appearantly towed heavy a few times in your life. Just dont get why people wont listen to those that have been there. I have towed across the US more times than I want to admit personally.

There is no safe or legal way to make a 1/2 ton inot a 3/4 ton. C.I.P. A guy a know took a 1/2 ton truck adn put 1 ton suspension under it. Thought that upped his pulling capacity till DOT caught him. Still licensed as a half ton with a half ton frame. Half ton towing capacity.

[JohnnyU]

I think there are two schools of thought on this topic, and my original comments might have been misinterpreted. Even if they were not, I want to clearly explain what my thoughts are on this issue.

1/2 Ton trucks are capable tow rigs, up to their legal weight, however they can definitely improve the efficiency and safety of towing with a few upgrades. The suspension improvements (springs or airbags) will help maintain a level ride height which we can all agree is for safety and stability. The 14SF axle strength itself isn't the goal here, but the improved braking system available. In my opinion, the braking system is the most important upgrade for towing (or even for general driving). Keeping the truck level helps the braking system operate as it was designed and intended to operate.

I do not suggest these upgrades as a stop-gap measure to substitute a 1/2 ton truck for a true 3/4 or 1-ton truck. I suggest these upgrades as important for any 1/2 ton truck towing or hauling loads appropriate for a 1/2 ton truck. Improved stopping power is always a welcomed upgrade on any platform, in my opinion. If you are doing the work that requires a Heavy Duty truck, then you need to use a Heavy Duty truck.

[speedracer326]

I think that's where part of my argument was misinterpreted: the limits of a 7200# GVWR truck are decidedly south of an 8600# GVWR truck, much moreso than the diff between a 6200 and 7200.

[transam]

Definitely don't think you should try to make a 1/2 ton into a heavy hauler. I have a '94 2500 LD but it has a heavy liftgate on it that kills some of my carrying capacity. I added some Hellwig "2,500 pound" add-a-leafs to it. Helped tremendously but it did what I thought it would do. With no load it make the springs, front to rear feel like the front springs were too soft, like the suspension wasn't balanced anymore. It's not as noticeable when I put some new Rancho RS5000's on it. It gets the job done but just barely. The brakes are barely adequate too.
Eric

[someotherguy]

Definitely don't think you should try to make a 1/2 ton into a heavy hauler. I have a '94 2500 LD but it has a heavy liftgate on it that kills some of my carrying capacity. I added some Hellwig "2,500 pound" add-a-leafs to it. Helped tremendously but it did what I thought it would do. With no load it make the springs, front to rear feel like the front springs were too soft, like the suspension wasn't balanced anymore. It's not as noticeable when I put some new Rancho RS5000's on it. It gets the job done but just barely. The brakes are barely adequate too.
Eric

And that quote is from a man who WORKS his truck...believe it; I've seen it!

Richard

[bowtieguy101]

I would like to know if the front end components are direct swap over tho. I see people swapping 2wd 2500 & 3500 crew cabs into 1500 suspension. Wonder if its bolts right up?

[someotherguy]

1500 (other than the smaller brakes on 88-89 regular cabs) and 2500LD components are the same other than lug pattern on the rotor.

2500 regular (8 lug) and 3500 parts only differ in the upper control arm, spindle, rotor and caliper. These parts will bolt to the 1500 frame. Furthermore, the rear leafs and rear axle will bolt right up, too. Still isn't the whole package.

Richard

[transam]

That'a a lot of work, trying to make a 1500 into a heavier version. You can buy the whole truck at an auction for less. I bought my '94 2500 LD with 55,000 miles and a $3,000 liftgate on it at an auction from a college for $2,300. They were just using it as a utility vehicle on their property.
Eric

[bowtieguy101]

I agree its nto the whole package, Just though he needed a batter rear end and wanted to go to the FF14 (8lug) and would upgrade the front end to match. Still wont be towing out of the 1500 limits, Just make it more stable towing.

[JohnnyU]

I agree its nto the whole package, Just though he needed a batter rear end and wanted to go to the FF14 (8lug) and would upgrade the front end to match. Still wont be towing out of the 1500 limits, Just make it more stable towing.

I'm still wanting to see someone try this, but you can use the hub from a 95-96 Dodge 2500 (w/8-lug D44) to upgrade to 8-lug front, retaining the same cv shafts, etc.

[transam]

I had a '79 3/4 ton 4 x 4 that someone had put everthing out of a 1 ton under it. Rear ends, steering parts (including steering box), 454, TH400, cast iron transfer case, etc. For the suspension they put Superlift 12" and 3" body lift. Had 44 Super Swampers. I had an '84 3/4 ton with the same suspension before that. Only thing I didn't like about the 1 ton was than the turning radius was less. Somethimes I couldn't turn street corners, no matter how wide I turned. Had to back up and get another shot at it. That was really a pain when someone was right on my back bumper and wouldn't move back. That thing would plow down the road good with the big block and 4.56's. My other one had a 350 and 4.10's (with 44's too). The carpet under the gas pedal was smashed down from my pushing it to make that one go faster.
Eric

[bowtieguy101]

I'm still wanting to see someone try this, but you can use the hub from a 95-96 Dodge 2500 (w/8-lug D44) to upgrade to 8-lug front, retaining the same cv shafts, etc.

CV shafts? your talking about a 4x4 right?

[JohnnyU]

CV shafts? your talking about a 4x4 right?

I haven't seen too many 2wd trucks with cv shafts, so yes I was referring to a 4wd. Are we not?

[bowtieguy101]

I haven't seen too many 2wd trucks with cv shafts, so yes I was referring to a 4wd. Are we not?

No this truck is a 2 wheel drive. I know the 4wd front end wont bolt up, seen it tried too many times adn failed.

His truck is a 1500 excab 2wd, the donor truck will be a 2500 single cab 2wd ( 8lug)

[Fastgreen350]

I have been thinking of doing a similar thing to my 93 1/2 ton truck. I was thinking of doing a sas ford high pinion dana 60 and a dana 60 rear with 3/4 ton leaves off of a 73-87 Chebby. Also putting hydroboost in and boxing the frame. I think It would handle a heavy load as a oobs 3/4 ton truck would have imho.

[bowtieguy101]

I have been thinking of doing a similar thing to my 93 1/2 ton truck. I was thinking of doing a sas ford high pinion dana 60 and a dana 60 rear with 3/4 ton leaves off of a 73-87 Chebby. Also putting hydroboost in and boxing the frame. I think It would handle a heavy load as a oobs 3/4 ton truck would have imho.

Not anwhere near what i am trying to do. And no you will be illegal if you haul more then the rated weight the truck is registered to haul.

[bowtieguy101]

I'm still wanting to see someone try this, but you can use the hub from a 95-96 Dodge 2500 (w/8-lug D44) to upgrade to 8-lug front, retaining the same cv shafts, etc.

Wont work. One is a solid axle, other has CV shafts. Would require more fab work than it could be worth.

[Fastgreen350]

Not anwhere near what i am trying to do. And no you will be illegal if you haul more then the rated weight the truck is registered to haul.

You are trying to make your truck haul as if it were a 3/4 ton. I would also be doing the same. Also I will not be hauling more than the truck is rated for merely making it handle the load better and be more capable off road. Not to say it would be a 3/4 ton truck, just that I would most likely be able to haul what a 3/4 ton would be capable of and have it last.

[JohnnyU]

Wont work. One is a solid axle, other has CV shafts. Would require more fab work than it could be worth.

You're not paying attention, Scooter. The unit bearings used on the specified Dodge axle will fit onto the IFS knuckle, and will accept the splined portion of the CV shafts. The Dodge 8-lug rotors are used with the GM calipers.

[bowtieguy101]

You are trying to make your truck haul as if it were a 3/4 ton. I would also be doing the same. Also I will not be hauling more than the truck is rated for merely making it handle the load better and be more capable off road. Not to say it would be a 3/4 ton truck, just that I would most likely be able to haul what a 3/4 ton would be capable of and have it last.

I was not looking do do a SAS conversion, Just bolt up standard 2wd 2500 suspension on my dads old 2wd 1500 frame. Wouldnt haul any more than his little traierl or hay bales, just make it more stable adn get rid of the crappy old 10 bolt rear differential.

[Fastgreen350]

I was not looking do do a SAS conversion, Just bolt up standard 2wd 2500 suspension on my dads old 2wd 1500 frame. Wouldnt haul any more than his little traierl or hay bales, just make it more stable adn get rid of the crappy old 10 bolt rear differential.

Right I am just basically doing the same with springs plus putting in dana 60 rear. And I figure while I'm at it I will do an SAS. It is just a way to get it out of the weeds cheeply and have it handle better towing.

[nick613]

I'd look into swapping a 14 bolt SF rear end, add-a-leafs, heavy duty shocks and airbags. That will help it tow better.

[bowtieguy101]

it ende up being a direct bolt in for the most part. Very little work to make anything fit. Took abotu 4 hours for the whole endeavor. Dad is happy now and I dont have to worry abotu replacing that useless 10 bolt rear axle ever few years. Now he has low mileage 2500 (8lug) running gear under his truck

[bowtieguy101]

You're not paying attention, Scooter. The unit bearings used on the specified Dodge axle will fit onto the IFS knuckle, and will accept the splined portion of the CV shafts. The Dodge 8-lug rotors are used with the GM calipers.

Prove it.... I just cant believe it because I heard it on the net. Need proof.

[nine5yukon]

pics plzkthnx

[bowtieguy101]

pics plzkthnx

I didnt take any. Truck is in Oklahoma, I am not back in Alabama.

[JohnnyU]

No this truck is a 2 wheel drive. I know the 4wd front end wont bolt up, seen it tried too many times adn failed.

His truck is a 1500 excab 2wd, the donor truck will be a 2500 single cab 2wd ( 8lug)


Wont work. One is a solid axle, other has CV shafts. Would require more fab work than it could be worth.


Prove it.... I just cant believe it because I heard it on the net. Need proof.

1) Seeing as I don't own ANY GM's with IFS, this may be difficult....

2) Searching a little bit on your own may prove to be a useful skill for you later in life.... Since you're obviously incapable of doing anything but being spoon-fed information readily available on the internet already, you might read through this link...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=870443&highlight=

More specifically here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11138869&postcount=13


EDIT: This board needs to have a different background color, preferably black. That would make black text much easier. :middle:

[bowtieguy101]

I dont own any IFS 4w4 stuff either. I have seen many people post this is possible, but never seen anyone do it. Not saying it cant be done, But it seems to be alot of speculation. I would love to see one done that way to know for sure it can be done.


Thanks for your sarcasism though.

[coreyg201]

I'm gonna be putting 3/4 ton springs on my 95 silverado as soon as i can get my hands on some. They are hard to come across at the junkyards!

[transam]

Having a hard time getting the front or rear springs (or both)?

[cowboyteddybear]

Well i have a ? then guys, why on a ext cab long box when i replaced the brakes on the truck a few months ago the parts came up as 3/4 ton heavy duty breaking system. What im trying to find out because or this fact did the factory use a 3/4 ton frame on a 1/2 ton truck.

[Quyonmob]

well i have a ? then guys why on a ext cab long box how come it uses 3/4 braking it or is it not a 3/4 ton frame

Try asking that again, with capitalization and punctuation.

[speedracer326]

Tray asking that again, with capitalization and punctuation.

Try rewording too, because it's unclear what you're asking. FWIW, 1/2 tons don't get 3/4 ton brakes.