93' Suburban 1500 4x4 4BT swap "PICS"!

[b1jetmech]

Hello everyone,

My names Chase.

I just wanted to introduce myself with this thread.

I've been a chevy guy my whole life and have gotten into diesels. I messed with older GM diesels and owned the 6.2's, 6.5 turbo's and Ford 7.3 (F350). Then I got the Cummins craze and went with a 4BT.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban1.jpg
Here is the 93' Burb'. 4x4, half ton. 200k but in very good shape inside and out.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban11.jpg
Work began by pulling the tired 350 out.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban25.jpg
Here's the 4bt. A 105 horse 265 ft-lbs motor out of a step van.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban7.jpg
Pretty much any 4BT stepvan will have the GM adapter. All GM adapters tilted to the passenger side for starter clearances of the GM transmission. This would work to my advantage.
Also notice the "wave ring" on the flexplate. This wave ring had a TH400/4L80E 11.5" bolt pattern. I would be using the 700R4 which had a 10.5" bolt pattern.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban8.jpg
Here is special made torque converter...what made it special? Had the mounting pads located further out to match the 11.5" TH400 pattern. It worked fine.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban12.jpg
The engine and rebuilt transmission mated

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban13.jpg
First of many in-n-out "Fit testes"

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban14.jpgEngine resting for accessory location.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban19.jpg
After mounting accessories, The end result was the factory alternator(not pictured) with a dodge 5.9 8 groove alternator pulley that went right on. The AC compressor was a dodge application.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban15.jpg
Here is an AC compressor bracket from the Cummins dealer. Bout' a 140 dollars. This located the AC compressor.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban21.jpg
There was a slight drawback though. This bracket bolted where the engine mount bolted the engine. Everything lined up but it pushed the motor mount out almost an inch...raising the motor up. Had to go back and modified the stepvan mounts that have been using this whole time.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban20.jpg
Another clearance problem occurred is the AC compressor interfered with the oil filter. The 4BT came with a horizontal mount oil filter. I switched it to a Dodge 5.9 oil filter mount that mounted the oil filter vertical. However because of "Cause and Reaction" the dodge vertical filter was right int front of the turbo inlet. So the exhaust manifold had to be changed to angled the turbo "outward"(not pictured).

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban16.jpg
One of the last items to accomplished is the oil pan mod. As you know, GM trucks are IFS and wanted to keep it all stock with NO lift for a combination of reasons. Small kids(one being special needs) just want to get in and out with minimal effort(getting old).

The cummins oil pan is very wide and it would not fit without major modifications.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban17.jpg
This was just the beginning as I went further into it.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban22.jpg
Finally butchered enough off of it and added material to the other side to make up the for the loss in capacity. The capacity increased from 10 to 12 quarts!

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/4BT%20Suburban/4btSuburban24.jpg
The final product of the oil man mods allowed me to snug the pan right in there next to the 4WD third member. Still had to come out for further mods but this picture was the last one.
When driving the Suburban with this engine. Before this picture of the final clearance mod, when accelerating the engine would torque to the passenger side making the oil pan RUB the 4wd third member. Got it fixed and worked great.

Last but not least here is the vid of it running.

http://youtu.be/uV903Ai7Uhg


The Suburban ran great. Wasn't quite as fast as the tired 350 on the top end but the low end wasn't an issue.

Mileage was good. Got consistent 20-21 around town and 26 on the highway.

I ended up selling it because it vibrated too bad at idle. I mean bad vibrations to the point your teeth chattered. Once I was on the highway or cruising around town it wasn't a problem.

In some stepvan applications, there were liquid mounts that isolated the 4BT vibes. The mounts I used were 1st get dodge 5.9 so they didn't isolate that well at all.

If I were to do another cummins swap it would be a 5.9 because they are smooth and mileage isn't that much less.

Enjoy!

Chase

[SVO1]

Very nice! If I'm not mistaken have I seen elsewhere that you did a 6.5 swap into another burb?
I have a 94 and I am wanting to do a 6.2/6.5 swap for economy reasons.
And also if I may ask what Special needs does your kid have? I have a 3yr old with Down Syndrome and she's awesome!

[b1jetmech]

Hey SVO,

Yeah I did a 6.5 non turbo swap to a 94' Suburban. It's posted over at dieselplace. However I'm already looking to go back to gas. Because diesel is a little too slow for me. I'm looking into a 305/350 tuneport and maybe add some boost.

I'm glad to hear your daughter brings JOY to your family. No matter what, our children are such a blessing to us...and we count our blessings!

My daughter has a tracheotomy because of her wind pipe was half the size of what it should been when she was born. However she can out grow it so were thankful for that. She just get sick much easier.

Keep me up to date with your daughter so we can keep her in our prayers.

The economy gain for me was good with the 6.5 diesel. My average fuel mileage went from 11 to 20. I have a complete turbo kit but won't be using it since I'm going back to gas.

despite some rhetoric, 6.5's are great engines. GM didn't over engineer them but they can be built to last forever. The main thing to do is lower the compression ratio from 21.3 to 18 to 1 and that frees the engine from alot of stress. With lower compression the EGT's are lower, power is enhanced with more volume to accommodate more air and less stress to the bottom end. PLUS it's alot easier then a cummins to swap in...jsut factory parts.

Let me know if you have questions.

Chase

[nine5yukon]

my neighbor talks of wanting to do something like this, did the hood and everything fit back right?

[b1jetmech]

Yes, but it was close!

These engines are so tall...the bottom of the block where the oil pan bolts to cleared the 4WD third member by a HALF an inch. THe top of the engine cleared the hood by an inch.

[SVO1]

Good to know!
Shelby is awesome, she loves everyone she meets, and she is just so full of happiness. I wish more people were like her.
However with all of her therapies and such when the Chrysler dealer I worked at was shut down it really did not work for me to go back to a "real" job, so I do auto repair out of my garage.
It can make for some stressful bill paying times, but the leaps and Bounds Shelby has made with me around have been incredible.


I know a good bit about the 6.5's and their issues, and I would like to end up with a turbo 6.2/6.5 in my burb, preferably with a manual IP :)

Biggest issue here is everyone wants a ton for even a rotted out bone if it has a diesel. The burb that I have I have owned for a while and I know what it needs/doesn't so I hate to get rid of it. And the finances are not there to buy a different rig.
I do a good bit of towing with my open car trailer, and also we take the burb on a lot of 4-500 mile trips to see family, so the increased economy really speaks to me.
Too bad you weren't closer I'd try to buy your stuff off of you when you go back to gas!!

[SVO1]

Also I have a wiring question. did you wire the 6.5 up custom for the glow plugs and such, or did you swap the harness in from a diesel truck? I have not dug up all of the diagrams, but I wonder if the diesel harness would interchange into the same year gas truck.

[b1jetmech]

For glowplug wiring use this schematic for the 92 and up glowplug controllers.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/Misc/2009-12-29_200141_86_diesel.gif

I installed an additional glowplug controller which was a Ford starter relay. the reason is the glowplug controller is temperature sensitive and if the engine is warm from running the temp sensor can prevent the glowplugs from lighting up and yet the engine isn't warmed up enough to start without the glowplugs. This is where the Ford relay comes into play. Because it is wired separately, It will allow the glowpugs to activate separately regardless of the temp.

Also, use 60g glowplugs. For the simple reason they are self limiting. you won't be able to over heat them by keeping them on too long.


For engine harness. Just route the power wire from the distributor to the injection pump. There is a solenoid on/off on the IP and a simple hot wire is all needed. There is also a fast idle solenoid on the injection pump that comes off the temp switch at the passenger side rear of the engine.

Other then that I haven't done a 94 and newer 6.5 electronic IP swap because I don't like them. I stick with mechanical IP because simplicity rules the day. SO I can't tell you about the them but stick with mechanical injection pumps they are easy to maintain.

[SVO1]

Good info thanks! Yes I would like to try to stay with a manual IP, but there again it depends on what I can find for a donor vehicle. Around here people want $3k+ for a rotted out barley running 6.5/6.2 anything :(

[b1jetmech]

You won't be dissapointed;)

[ToneDanza]

very clean, i really like this build and ones like it

[phoebeisis]

Wow-that is some impressive DIY install fabrication etc!!

Big aside- but the 1988 Suburban 1/2 ton 2wd DIESEL still has the best HIGHWAY EPA Suburban FE- rated 15/22 of any
Suburban.
The 2 mode Hybrid Tahoe-very nice-very expensive vehicle is rated at 21 hy I think-though it could be tweaked to 22 easily enough.
I think that 1988 had a 6.0 or 6.2 diesel- not a turbo diesel- just a diesel.
Heck the Piece of Junk EARLY 1980'S 350 diesel got an honest 25 mpg in my buddies Suburban in the early 1980's.He would
average 25 mpg driving from New Orleans to Orlando-all interstate and national speed limit was 55 mph I think.

My 1998 5.7 C1500 gets 21 mpg on long trips- EPA rated 12/17-bet the 5.3 EPA 14/21 would get 23 mpg driven the same way.
It a well designed TD could get better FE than this current crop of gasoline motors- but it would not be a HUGE amount better.
With the 16-20% diesel price premium negates 3 mpg of a diesels better MPG. A well designed TD would be maybe 5 mpg better than the 5.3 in hy mpg.
I like diesels- but GM and Ford- make such good gasoline engines that the TD only makes $$ and Cents sense for tow vehicles. They are too expensive otherwise.

I would love to have a 26 HY mpg TD Suburban-maybe a 4.0 liter straight six-250 hp 400 lb feet- or a 3.8 liter V-8-Heck it could even be a 2.8 liter 4 cyl TD 180 HP 320 LB FT.
Charlie