Micro Marring. Bad Technique Maybe?

[Ghastlyone]

Over the weekend I polished the hood on my Tahoe Limited with my PC7424 using Poorboys product. I wanted to get some more practice in.

This has been frustrating me getting this micro marring. You can really only see it in direct sunlight. It's like millions of very tiny little swirls. Very very tiny.

I used SSR 2.5 with an Orange Pad (speed 5&6), then SSR 1 with a White Pad (speed 5&6). Then Black Hole Glaze with a Black Pad, and then finally Natty's Blue with a Red Pad.

Could it be I'm not polishing long enough to let the product break down? Polishing in too fast a motion? Should I be priming my polishing pads with detail spray/product before hand?

Could dusting cause this issue? Because the SSR2.5 dusts a lot.

Any you other PC gurus out there have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

[Tweaks]

Nothing more frustrating that battling with micro marring. I would leave the SSR 2.5 and orange pad aside if the issue is just lots of micro marring. That setup there is probably a touch too aggressive for what you need to remove now.

I guess from what you have to work with, I would white pad with the SSR1. I would lightly lubricate the pad with some detail spray if you have some lying around, and work in 2x2 feet areas starting by spreading the SSR1 at level 3. Once you have quickly covered the area to be worked on, pick the speed up to 5. I know these things go up to 6 but I tend to run into problem at that top speed. I find 5 to be the best speed to work polishes.

At speed 5, do an up and down pattern from left to right. Then, right to left in a side by side motion. At this point you have gone over every part of that 2x2 foot section twice and hopefully the polish is starting to break down. I tend to make one more pass in each pattern and direction and then stop to wipe the polish off and inspect my work. Micro marring, to me, is a sign that the finishing polish hasn't broken down enough so you might find that several passes will be needed. I like to let the weight of the PC7424 do the work and occasionally put about 5 lbs of pressure down in the pad.

I have yet to run into this issue with the products I use, but I did have micro marring on my bed from years ago when a friend used a non clutching, heavy orbital makita buffer to erase some old scratches that we had wetsanded away. Nothing I did seemed to chase those micro marring swirls away until I got that free sample of Wolfgang swirl remover 3.0 and that product quickly took all of the fine swirls right out. I truly believe we can do everything right but sometimes be using a product that just doesn't get the result we are after and that might be the case here as well.

[Ghastlyone]

Thanks for the reply Tweaks.

So micro marring is basically caused by too aggressive of product huh? I was looking into going with Meguiar's 105/205 combo pretty soon, but from what I've read, the 105 compound is pretty damn aggressive also.

Is it just the way it finishes that makes it a superior product?

I went with an orange pad and SSR2.5 on my hood, because that as the first time I've polished/waxed it in a very long time. There was some hazing, light water spots, etc.

I'm definately going to try priming the pad with detail spray from here on out.

This paint detailing is like a science, and takes a ton of practice to perfect.

[Stratosman]

It can also be caused by using too mush pressure. I used to do that, I felt I had to try harder than I needed to get the product to work.

[Tweaks]

It can also be caused by using too mush pressure. I used to do that, I felt I had to try harder than I needed to get the product to work.

Definitely can be a part of the problem. That's why I like to make my last passes slow and with little to no pressure on the buffer.

Ghastly, M105 erases my wetsanding scuffs quickly, but thanks to the PC7424 and the foam pads, it's not harsh on the paint from what I have found. Also, it does "finish" nicely, with no left over haze or micro marring. I think that's why I like it so much and am reluctant to try anything else.

You're so right that detailing is a science and takes some practice. However, once you find the combo that nets great results every time, you stick with it no matter what.

[Bullitt1672]

Wow I thought I was reading a thread I made on another forum! I had the EXACT same problem with the exact same products used. The paint looked great but under an LED light, the micro marring was crazy! Looked like a bunch of little pig tails. Never did find out what I was doing wrong, but I'm going to be detailing the car again and will change up my technique (work the polish in longer to let it break down, and use less pressure.) If I continue to get the marring, Im going to try out my Cyclo instead of the PC and see if there is a difference. If the marring continues I see nothing else to blame but the polish, which I'm already not too crazy about because of how much it dusts. I'll be looking into meguiars or mezerna.

Edit: Like said above, prime the pad. I think it helps from putting to much product on the pad and getting it caked up and not letting the pad cut correctly.

[Ghastlyone]

Ok guys, so this weekend I washed my truck and stripped all the wax/glaze, etc.

Started fresh, so I could test a few things out. I started out with my Poorboys SSR1 on a White Pad, primed the pad with detail spray, made perfect passes on speed #5 (slowly) back and forth, up and down, and I even let up on the pressure completely on the last complete pass, and I still got the damn micro marring.

Now this is where it gets interesting....

I changed pads to another clean white pad, except this time I used some Meguiars Ultimate Compound. I did the exact same thing in the original spot and got near flawless results. No micro marring or anything. I've used Ultimate Compound one other time, but never with a PC.

I guess the Poorboys product is just super aggressive. :dunno:

I think my technique is getting much better, I just need to find that right product combo that works perfect for my paint.

[Tweaks]

I guess the Poorboys product is just super aggressive. :dunno:

I think my technique is getting much better, I just need to find that right product combo that works perfect for my paint.

Poorboys being a bit on the aggressive side or not having the modern compound engineered ability to "finish" to perfection like many newer products do has always sort of been my impression of poorboys and what keeps me from buying their products.

Now, I know you might not want to do this, but if you have some isopropyl alcohol or Rain X windhield treatment lying around, something that can safely strip wax and fillers from the paint, test a spot where you used the ultimate compound just to make sure it isn't a product full of fillers. I think it doesn't have fillers in it, but you never know. If you strip an small area and it still looks as good, then you know the micro marring is gone for good and now you can simply apply your favorite wax.

Glad to see you sorted this out and made progress in the right direction. That last sentence I quoted from you, the part about needing to find the right combo that works for your paint, that's most of the battle because I know your technique isn't the issue :cheer:

[Bullitt1672]

Good to hear you got the micro-marring figured out. I detailed my car today as well and used some meguiars polish and like you, no micro marring but I used a cyclo instead of the PC so I wasn't sure which was causing it but now seems like it is in fact the poorboys. I never was too pleased with their polishes anyway, but love their black hole glaze and natty's blue paste wax.

[Ghastlyone]

Poorboys being a bit on the aggressive side or not having the modern compound engineered ability to "finish" to perfection like many newer products do has always sort of been my impression of poorboys and what keeps me from buying their products.

Now, I know you might not want to do this, but if you have some isopropyl alcohol or Rain X windhield treatment lying around, something that can safely strip wax and fillers from the paint, test a spot where you used the ultimate compound just to make sure it isn't a product full of fillers. I think it doesn't have fillers in it, but you never know. If you strip an small area and it still looks as good, then you know the micro marring is gone for good and now you can simply apply your favorite wax.

Glad to see you sorted this out and made progress in the right direction. That last sentence I quoted from you, the part about needing to find the right combo that works for your paint, that's most of the battle because I know your technique isn't the issue :cheer:

From what I've been reading Tweaks, a lot of people on both Meguiar's forums and Autogeek say they didn't get any marring/swirls reappearing after alcohol rub downs. I guess Ultimate Compound is just a toned down version of 105. Here's a quote from one of the forums:


Ultimate Compound is a consumer product derived from M105 Ultra Cut Compound - that should be very well known, but what does it mean exactly? M105 was initially designed for use with a rotary buffer on fresh paint, which is why it will often dust noticeably when used on older, more dried out paint, and potentially even more so when used with a D/A rather than a rotary. So, for a consumer application where M105's level of cut isn't really needed, but a much more user friendly experience is practically mandatory, we altered the formulation to include lubricants that make hand application and wipe off easier, and to provide a longer buffing cycle when used with a D/A.

But mention those lubricants to some people and they immediately shout "fillers". Ultimate Compound contains the same SMAT abrasive technology found in M105, M205, M86, etc so it actually cuts and removes defects. Use it with good technique and then do an IPA wipe down and see for yourself. Besides, fillers can only go so far, and we've removed some pretty darn nasty defects using nothing more than UC on a W8207 Soft Buff 2.0 foam polishing pad and a G110v2. Take a look at this thread from a recent Saturday Class where we removed a year old bird dropping etch mark from a C6 Corvette using the above mentioned process. Now, you'll hear plenty of talk about how C6 Corvette paint is crazy hard, so this should have been a real challenge, right? Yet we fully removed the etching, after the owner said he'd been trying to get rid of it through various means for a long time. You don't "fill" an etching like that - you either remove it by leveling the surrounding paint, or you don't remove it. And we removed it with Ultimate Compound and a D/A running a 7" foam polishing pad. No rotary, no wool, no foam cutting pad, no M105. And too darn many eye witnesses for it to have been faked!

But yeah, I don't know what's up with the Poorboys polish, but it seems harsh. If using an Orange pad with SSR2.5, then down to a White pad with SSR1, their least abrasive polish, and still getting micro marring? I don't know what else to do really. So far I'm very impressed with the Ultimate Compound. It dusts very little, and comes off clean. I can only imagine what kind of results I might get with using an Orange pad next time also.

Next time I order some more pads, I'm getting some small bottles of 105/205 also.


Good to hear you got the micro-marring figured out. I detailed my car today as well and used some meguiars polish and like you, no micro marring but I used a cyclo instead of the PC so I wasn't sure which was causing it but now seems like it is in fact the poorboys. I never was too pleased with their polishes anyway, but love their black hole glaze and natty's blue paste wax.

This weekend after the polish, I finished with Black Hole and Natty's liquid. That stuff is pretty awesome. I'll try and snag a few pictures tomorrow.

[Tweaks]

From what I've been reading Tweaks, a lot of people on both Meguiar's forums and Autogeek say they didn't get any marring/swirls reappearing after alcohol rub downs. I guess Ultimate Compound is just a toned down version of 105. Here's a quote from one of the forums:

.

I sort of have been getting the impression that the Ultimate Compound is a more user friendly and toned down 105. I'm actually thinking of getting some of that Ultimate Compound because 105 dusts pretty badly and I prefer to save it for taking out the really bad stuff or wetsanding scuffs. That and UC can be found anywhere out here and it sure is cheaper than the 105

[Ghastlyone]

Here's a few pic this morning. I got some in direct sunlight...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb126/ghastlyone13/100_8377.jpg

This is one of the hood...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb126/ghastlyone13/100_8381.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb126/ghastlyone13/100_8379.jpg

[Ghastlyone]

It's not flawless by any means, but its getting close. I still have a few spots that need going over again. I'm getting some 4" pads next I think with a PC adapter.

[Tweaks]

Holy Smokes that is impressive. I'm jealous. I'm definitely getting some Ultimate compound into my arsenal now, lol.

When did the IROC's get a color change? Are they plastidip'd? You know how badly I want your 2DR, right?

[HiSpdJunkie]

I used to swear by PoorBoy's SSR 2.5 and SSR1 until my last order. The new shipment of SSR 2.5 seemed to leave a lot of micro marring. Time for me switch it up. again.

The pictures you posted made me jealous. I have only managed to get my paint that perfect a handful of times and I have done my fair share of detailing. I was starting to doubt myself until my last detail that came out almost as nice as that. I was going to try some Adam's products but may just go with the Ultimate compound after seeing your results.

[Bullitt1672]

This weekend after the polish, I finished with Black Hole and Natty's liquid. That stuff is pretty awesome. I'll try and snag a few pictures tomorrow.

lol Same here except I used natty's blue paste. Not to hijack your thread but here are my results. Day was overcast so unfortunately couldn't get any direct sunlight shots. Like said above, I'm glad that I as well got the micro-marring pinned to the poorboys with the help of hearing about your issues with it too. I also read on another forum that poorboys polishes are outdated and just not very good compared to what is out there now.

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af74/bullitt208/Camaro11.jpg
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af74/bullitt208/Camaro15.jpg

[Ghastlyone]

Holy Smokes that is impressive. I'm jealous. I'm definitely getting some Ultimate compound into my arsenal now, lol.

When did the IROC's get a color change? Are they plastidip'd? You know how badly I want your 2DR, right?

You should give it a try Tweaks. It really is some great product. Very little dusting, and basically a single step polish. When I do my Limited which needs a full detail badly, I'm going to go with an Orange pad and down to a White and see what type results I can get.

And yeah, I plasti dipped the Irocs haha. Just wanted to change it up a bit.


I used to swear by PoorBoy's SSR 2.5 and SSR1 until my last order. The new shipment of SSR 2.5 seemed to leave a lot of micro marring. Time for me switch it up. again.

The pictures you posted made me jealous. I have only managed to get my paint that perfect a handful of times and I have done my fair share of detailing. I was starting to doubt myself until my last detail that came out almost as nice as that. I was going to try some Adam's products but may just go with the Ultimate compound after seeing your results.

Yeah I'm kind of disappointed by this PB's product so far. The money I spent on all this wasn't cheap. I'm going to try some Adam's polishes eventually also. I've heard too many great things about it.


lol Same here except I used natty's blue paste. Not to hijack your thread but here are my results. Day was overcast so unfortunately couldn't get any direct sunlight shots. Like said above, I'm glad that I as well got the micro-marring pinned to the poorboys with the help of hearing about your issues with it too. I also read on another forum that poorboys polishes are outdated and just not very good compared to what is out there now.
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af74/bullitt208/Camaro15.jpg

That looks awesome. You really cannot go wrong with their Glaze and Wax. It's some top notch stuff. The Natty's is really easy to work with and comes off very clean.

I don't know why, I just enjoy doing this paint detail stuff. Trying to get your 12 year old paint to look like it's only 2 days old is my goal haha.

[2HeavyChevy]

3M 39062 (purple bottle blue top) Works all day long... hand rub or with a 3M light blue buffing pad