Poor towing 6.0

[mg05]

I've got an 04 2500 6.0 with 4.10s. It is lifted 6 in with 35 in tires. I took a trip with about 2000 lbs worth of trailer and I feel like the truck struggled to stay at 65-70 on the highway through the mountains. I had to run it pretty hard with lots of downshifts. Is this common. I have a diablo on the 87 tune and a straight pipe exhaust. Other than that it is stock. The truck has 82000 miles and seems to run just fine otherwise. What's the deal??

[vinny18]

That sounds normal to me, my dads 6.0 has 4.10's and 265's. When we pull cars behind it, everythings great in town, but when we get on the highway you really have to mash it to stay at 65. So your 35's probably really push it.

[TheBigBlackHD]

1st thing, get some nice mufflers. I highly recommend the Borla XR-1s. Great sounding and preforming on the 6.0L. Those straight pipes are hurting you in more ways than one. 2nd, get a REAL tune. I'd recommend Blackbear, he seems to be on point with the GM light truck and suvs. 3rd, you need more gear. IMO, 4.88s at the very least, 5.13s would be ideal. The 4.10s are a nice thing from factory but 33s are pushing their limits, 35s have surpassed them.

[mg05]

Thanks guys. That is really disappointing. I would have thought a 2500 should handle a 2000 lbs trailer no problem. Man I feel bad for the guys with half tons, I bet it is white knuckle trying to just drive one lifted. As for the gears I know you can go deeper with 35s but I seem to run close to 2000 at 55-60 anyway. I'm afraid that anything deeper would have me running way too many rpm. Guess it is time to get that cummins I always wanted.

[someotherguy]

You should really feel sorry for guys with 6.0's in one tons, especially ones that weigh a lot even unloaded...like a wrecker.

I get why people are in love with these CAR engines in their trucks, when they drive around with no weight on. Start adding weight and it's like the old days with a carbed 305 under the hood.. :D

Richard

[Quyonmob]

My 5.3L 1500 tows like a champ, especially with piddly crap like 2000lbs. But then again, I didn't kill it with straight pipes, big tires with stock gears and handheld.

With 35's, 0.75OD, and 4.10s you should be around 1800rpm@ 60mph.

[2COR517]

Is your speedo calibrated for the tires? You might be traveling much faster than you think, or running lower rpms then you think. What type of trailer/what was on it?

[TheBigBlackHD]

My 5.3L 1500 tows like a champ, especially with piddly crap like 2000lbs. But then again, I didn't kill it with straight pipes, big tires with stock gears and handheld.

With 35's, 0.75OD, and 4.10s you should be around 1800rpm@ 60mph.

This.


My 6L tows fine with 33s and 4.10s. Sure I feel it on the way but she holds 75-80 fine with a 1500-2000 pound load. Im telling you, loose the crappy handheld and put some nice mufflers on it and you see an instant change. Upgrade the gears and welcome back to the realm of truck worth a sh!t. Straight pipes alone are enough to turn the 6.0 into a useless boat anchor, ask me how I know. 4.88s, dual Borla XR-1s, and a Blackbear tune to tie everything together and you'll be good. No need for a Cummins.

[Stratosman]

I pull my bass boat around in 4th no trouble, uphill or down, it never, literally never, has to downshift. Did that before my tune. The mountains I have driven are the same as the ones in WV. Not sure what the OP's truck is doing? Are the straight pipes hurting that much :dunno: I wouldn't think they would make that big of a difference.

[TheBigBlackHD]

I pull my boat around in 4th no trouble, uphill or down, it never, literally never, has to downshift. Did that before my tune. The mountains I have driven are the same as the ones in WV. Not sure what the OP's truck is doing?

Loosing all its power out some sh!tty ass dual 3" straight pipes.

[Stratosman]

Loosing all its power out some sh!tty ass dual 3" straight pipes.

I just edited my post :lol: I guess that's the majority of the problem.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Dude straight pipes kill the 6.0!!!!!! They sound cool at idle but thats it. My HD didnt want to get out of its own way with straights.

[mg05]

Wow don't like the straight pipes huh? I didn't do it on purpose... My truck had mufflers but one had something break loose inside and it rattled until I had to cut them off. So I plan to put mufflers back on just hadn't had the extra cash yet. I don't think gears and another tune are for me. The tune will not be THAT much better. I've had custom tunes and they were better but not life changing. If I have to spend thousands on gears to make my 3/4 ton truck pull 2000 lbs i'm for sure gonna trade it off. I'm not trying to sound smart I'm looking for advice, but I've owned several 5.3 vehicles( suburban and 2 silverados) and I know how they run...

I do have the speedo calibrated and also used a gps.

I will agree though I was worried that the no muffler thing was hurting me so that will be my starting point....

Thanks again for the replys

[Stratosman]

shouldn't need a tune at all to tow that

[mg05]

shouldn't need a tune at all to tow that

i agree, i know the big tires make a difference, but i did not buy the truck to tow. However, i would expect it to pull that small of a load

[TheBigBlackHD]

A better tune and some nice quality mufflers will make a world difference. Trust me, that handheld tune you have isnt worth the cardboard box it came in. A custom data logging tune will allow your truck to get the power it needs and deserves. Ask anyone on here with a custom tune., they will tell you the same.

[Diesel Dan LB7]

I've towed 20k+ with a 6.0 that was a turd. But 2000lbs should be no sweat at all, even with 35's

[Mr_Shamrock]

I think it has already been decided what the issue is, but just to give you a personal experience - I bought a 2002 GMC 1500HD with the 6.0 and the PO ran some straight pipes. I towed my 16' enclosed bike trailer loaded (probably in the 4000-4500 lb neighborhood) and not only was it absolutely annoying as hell, but the power was real poor. I stuck a 70 series Flowmaster on it and it was night and day difference. Of course it got even better with the Black Bear tune.

[mg05]

A better tune and some nice quality mufflers will make a world difference. Trust me, that handheld tune you have isnt worth the cardboard box it came in. A custom data logging tune will allow your truck to get the power it needs and deserves. Ask anyone on here with a custom tune., they will tell you the same.

Like i said, i've had custom tunes on other vehicles, and i'm sure it is better, but you are talking maybe 15 hp, if i get a good data log tune. The diablo turns down the tq management that is all i was really going for on this truck. For the money, especially after i already have the other, i don't think those few hp are going to be earth shattering.

[mg05]

I think it has already been decided what the issue is, but just to give you a personal experience - I bought a 2002 GMC 1500HD with the 6.0 and the PO ran some straight pipes. I towed my 16' enclosed bike trailer loaded (probably in the 4000-4500 lb neighborhood) and not only was it absolutely annoying as hell, but the power was real poor. I stuck a 70 series Flowmaster on it and it was night and day difference. Of course it got even better with the Black Bear tune.

I love loud trucks, but i agree 100% on the annoying part, especially because it is cut off straight under the truck.

[Outlawz2004]

1st thing, get some nice mufflers. I highly recommend the Borla XR-1s. Great sounding and preforming on the 6.0L. Those straight pipes are hurting you in more ways than one. 2nd, get a REAL tune. I'd recommend Blackbear, he seems to be on point with the GM light truck and suvs. 3rd, you need more gear. IMO, 4.88s at the very least, 5.13s would be ideal. The 4.10s are a nice thing from factory but 33s are pushing their limits, 35s have surpassed them.
agree 100%

Like i said, i've had custom tunes on other vehicles, and i'm sure it is better, but you are talking maybe 15 hp, if i get a good data log tune. The diablo turns down the tq management that is all i was really going for on this truck. For the money, especially after i already have the other, i don't think those few hp are going to be earth shattering.
I disagree. You may only gain 15 hp on top of the handheld, but that handheld cant put your downshifts and upshifts exactly where you want them. The custom tune will fix all that downshifting and keep you in your powerband. Your biggest problem I see is the exhaust(your loosing all your torque), and your stock gearing with the large tires.Your working your trans extra hard. Pay a little now for some gears, or alot later for a trans.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Word. A custom tune is good for a lot more than just horsepower.

[Quyonmob]

I'm not trying to sound smart I'm looking for advice, but I've owned several 5.3 vehicles( suburban and 2 silverados) and I know how they run...


Don't worry, you haven't come off as smart at all, especially with your mods. Sorry for your luck that my L33 will tow circles around your LQ4 truck, guess you got the runts and I got the pick of the litter.

A 6.0 in a 2500HD should out haul a 5.3L 1500 any day of the week.

A 6.0L that can't tow 2000lbs is a an pathetic excuse for a truck, hell my undergeared L03 used to haul that just fine.

Mufflers, tune. Gears should be swapped to 4.56-4.88.

[mg05]

Don't worry, you haven't come off as smart at all, especially with your mods. Sorry for your luck that my L33 will tow circles around your LQ4 truck, guess you got the runts and I got the pick of the litter.

A 6.0 in a 2500HD should out haul a 5.3L 1500 any day of the week.

A 6.0L that can't tow 2000lbs is a an pathetic excuse for a truck, hell my undergeared L03 used to haul that just fine.

Mufflers, tune. Gears should be swapped to 4.56-4.88.

Wow what a dick

I've never said the truck would not pull the trailer, and I'm sure it would still pull your truck faster than it would pull itself. I guess you must have gotten the 500 hp custom tune.

Thanks to everyone who gave helpful info, I think the mufflers are going to get me back on track and next time I get tires I think I'll get a size smaller tire instead of the gears.

[vinny18]

Wow what a dick

x2

[TheBigBlackHD]

Newbs, smh. When will they learn?

[vinny18]

It doesnt matter how old you are, or how many posts you have. I just dont see what justifies talking to someone you've never met like that. Doesnt seem too inviting to other people joining the site. Just my 2 cents.

[mg05]

Thanks, I was wondering if it was just me.

[Quyonmob]

Wow what a dick

I've never said the truck would not pull the trailer, and I'm sure it would still pull your truck faster than it would pull itself. I guess you must have gotten the 500 hp custom tune.

Thanks to everyone who gave helpful info, I think the mufflers are going to get me back on track and next time I get tires I think I'll get a size smaller tire instead of the gears.

No tune bone stock, an yup I'm a dick. Sorry your truck sucks at being a truck. :dunno:

[Quyonmob]

Newbs, smh. When will they learn?

Never. They then band together for safety. Thin skinned.

I offered advice off the get go, it didn't get through, so I thought I would make it clear. I'm not hear to handhold or breastfeed babies.

You guys should try Pirate4x4. They like you guys there. :D

[Mr_Shamrock]

Sorry your truck sucks at being a truck. :dunno:

Now that is some funny sh!t right there!!!!

[TheBigBlackHD]

It doesnt matter how old you are, or how many posts you have. I just dont see what justifies talking to someone you've never met like that. Doesnt seem too inviting to other people joining the site. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks, I was wondering if it was just me.

IMO, the amount of post someone has does mean something. Seeing has how post only count in the tech sections, I'm more inclined to listen to the opinion of a member with 2000 post than I am that of one with say 67 or 8. In my 5 years I've learned who to listen to and who not to and I can tell you 99% of the ones to listen to are the ones with several thousand post. The main reason for many of us having 4000+ post is because of threads just like this; where a newb comes in and ask the same question that has been ask 4000000000000 times and then gets pissed because all the established members flame them for not using the search feature or for shrugging off our comments because we talk junk about their handheld programmers or TB spacer or 500 horsepower stock TBI 305 with "exhaust". We arent *******s until yall make us *******s. And trust me, age has a lot to with it. Theres has never been a 16 year old kid to come to this forum with useful info. First we break you, then we mold you into a useful, knowledgeable truck enthuiast.


No tune bone stock, an yup I'm a dick. Sorry your truck sucks at being a truck. :dunno:


Never. They then band together for safety. Thin skinned.

I offered advice off the get go, it didn't get through, so I thought I would make it clear. I'm not hear to handhold or breastfeed babies.

You guys should try Pirate4x4. They like you guys there. :D

This. Its the internet, I could care less if you like me or not.


Now that is some funny sh!t right there!!!!

i lold irl.

[Quyonmob]

First we break you, then we mold you into a useful, knowledgeable truck enthuiast.

This.

BTW, my L03 with 3" exhaust and TBI mods was 400hp not 500hp. :D

[2COR517]

You guys should try Pirate4x4. ..

I think Pirate would be a great place for them to hang out.

[Jeff6.0]

Mr. Op, if you’re not gun shy and you are still reading this thread, I would like to also plug getting a custom tune. It really does wake up a LQ4.




For the love of Gawd man, Do it!

[von_ogre]

I'll also toss my vote in on the custom tune, well worth the $$$, hands down. Also, you might check out your cats and make sure they're fine/whole. My dad had a heavy half with the 6.0 and it blew the innards of one of the cats halfway down his exhaust, which restricted flow BIG time. He didn't throw any SES codes or anything, but the truck went from being pretty stout to absolutely gutless...

[mg05]

Stupid ****

[mg05]

Stupid sh*t

[mg05]

A few more stupid ass posts and i'll be as smart as you guys. And I can be a dick to everyone... Congratulations

[Outlawz2004]

congrats to you as well, I see a ban in your future.

[mg05]

No need for a ban I have nothing to gain from a site like this.

[Jeff6.0]

No need for a ban I have nothing to gain from a site like this.

I urge you to hang out. There's a lot of good info on here.
Some of the biggest douches are really the most helpfull poeple on here.
It's just a little jackassary and it's mostly meant in fun.

Toughen up Buttercup.

:thumbup:

[Quyonmob]

It's just a little jackassary and it's mostly meant in fun.

Toughen up Buttercup.

:thumbup:

^This.

[Brody57]

I agree with everyone else. I have a 2500HD and i pulled a 4 ton fertilizer trailor with 4.10s, 33s, and Spintech mufflers and had no problem. 4 tons=8,000 pounds if your not aware. Yea you could tell it was back there and had to start stopping a mile down the road from no trailor brakes but i pulled it down the road no problem. I also traveled up and down some pretty hilly terrain. If anything at least put mufflers on. Gears and tune would help out a lot. Tunes for the 6.0s do wonders.

[Jeff6.0]

4 tons=4000 pounds if your not aware.

I wasn't aware. I thought a ton was 2000 lbs. Who knew.

[Brody57]

LMAO! You caught me before my edit. I read that and gave myself a facepalm. Its too early and im still asleep lmao

[TheBigBlackHD]

I wasn't aware. I thought a ton was 2000 lbs. Who knew.

I thought it was 2240. Who really knew?

[Jeff6.0]

LMAO! You caught me before my edit. I read that and gave myself a facepalm. Its too early and im still asleep lmao

coffee time!

[Jeff6.0]

I thought it was 2240. Who really knew?

don't start with that british crap!

[Brody57]

I thought it was 2240. Who really knew?

Technically your right lol. 2000 pounds works for this situation though lol

[TheBigBlackHD]

don't start with that british crap!

What, you mean 907.18474 kilograms????

[Brody57]

coffee time!

I need something! I just made myself look like total asshatery!

[TheBigBlackHD]

I need something! I just made myself look like total asshatery!

I cant lie, I lold. I was like, YES! Brody to the rescue!!!! Then I read it and was like DAMN! Brody why you no math?!

[Brody57]

LMAO! I totally didnt proofread. I went back after Jeff posted and about slapped myself outta my work chair LMAO! I no do gud in maff class! HAHA!

[FordeatinZ71]

er...no. 4 tons is 8,000 lbs. 1 ton equals 2,000 lbs, not 1,000.

and, to the OP. you weren't being treated with any form of disrespect when you started this thread. everyone was trying to help you. the guys on here who were participating in this thread have owned trucks such as yours for a while AND HAVE MODDED THEM. so they know what works and what doesn't. you came on here asking why your truck was such a dog...well, it's pretty simple if you look at what you did...

you took a truck that's average at best when it comes to hauling loads and pulling trailers (sorry, thats why they make the 8.1 and the Duramax...you got the weakest possible 2500HD) and then you put 35" tires on it WITH STOCK GEARING...then you chopped off the mufflers (clogged up, busted, whatever...buy another) effectively taking away all the backpressure the engine needs. then, you've left it 100% stock...you've essentially done everything you can possibly do to castrate this poor truck and then start b!tching when it can't tow like a Duramax.

and then, on top of that...when someone finally gets a little rude (quyonmob i didn't think you were wrong at all) you turn into a total jackass. they were acting as such because they'd already tried to help you and you basically tried to tell them how what they said just wouldn't help and then kept asking what would fix it.

its like going to the doctor, being sick, and then every recommendation he makes telling him how that isn't gonna work and then prodding him for another answer. makes you look like a total dick.

now, once again...you want to make your truck a good tow rig again? here's how.

1. go back down to a 31" or so tire if you want to keep stock gearing, or change your gears to around a 4.88 or so.
2. put mufflers on it...make sure your cats aren't clogged.
3. get a GOOD tune (i, too, recommend Black Bear.)

that should make you happy with your truck again. if you wanna go further, there are all kinds of mods you can do that will make your truck quite beastly.

otherwise, don't listen and run off and get a Dodge with a Cummins. have fun with an inferior truck with a superior engine. have fun with a dashboard that will be severely cracked/busted in 80k miles, enjoy replacing the lift pump well before 70k miles, and if you get an auto trans, say goodbye to that right at or before 100k miles. all this for a truck you'll pay more for than you would to simply modify what you already have. unless you have money falling out of your @$$crack then i would calm down, stop being ****y and take the good advice you're getting here

[rebelbowtie]

I just want to stir the pot and say my 2500HD towed an M35a from California to Florida.

You have essentially ruined your already terrible stock exhaust, the 6.0 shares the same lungs as the 8.1 and it is way overkill for a small block. You have a 4L80e trans with gearing that doesn't match the engines powerband. The same goes for the stock converter, throw on top a head and intake design that promotes high RPM torque (granted it's still got a better torque curve than a 350) that silly little hand held tuner isn't doing much to help anywas, the factory tune on these trucks are so terrible. They start pulling timing and throwing massive amounts of fuel in it as soon as you hit the go pedal.

Add in big tires and a lift and you're asking for problems.

Seems to me the prOblem isn't the truck but the owner, you obviously don't know the characteristics of your truck.

[Brody57]

er...no. 4 tons is 8,000 lbs. 1 ton equals 2,000 lbs, not 1,000.

I know this, i corrected myself. Too early and i didnt notice.

[FordeatinZ71]

lol i know ya did bud. but when i started typing that long post i made, no one (not even you) had caught it (i thought i was gonna be the cool kid, mang!) so that's why i posted it. but when i posted it finally, like 3-4 people had responded...oops!

and i understand it being early...it's all good!

[Brody57]

lol i know ya did bud. but when i started typing that long post i made, no one (not even you) had caught it (i thought i was gonna be the cool kid, mang!) so that's why i posted it. but when i posted it finally, like 3-4 people had responded...oops!

and i understand it being early...it's all good!

Lmao. Yea i know how you feel. I saw it and about had a heart attack. I made myself look like a jacka$$. I feel you on the early part too brotha. You still a cool kid. Dont fret! haha. When you got post hookers like those two, its hard to get ina good word before they chime in LOL!!!!!

[TheBigBlackHD]

Lmao. Yea i know how you feel. I saw it and about had a heart attack. I made myself look like a jacka$$. I feel you on the early part too brotha. You still a cool kid. Dont fret! haha. When you got post hookers like those two, its hard to get ina good word before they chime in LOL!!!!!

Did you just call me a post hooker? :looking:












:lol::lol::lol:

[Brody57]

Did you just call me a post hooker? :looking:











:lol::lol::lol:

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yes i did! I was waitin to see if you caught it annnnd you did! Im just kiddin bro. I thought it was funny lol

[Jeff6.0]

from urban dictonary...

"A post whore is somebody who posts mostly meaningless messages consisting of one word or just emoticons. They have an unsaid ability to magically appear in any thread at any given time to add crucial arguements to the debate at hand. These said crucial arguements include ground-breaking conjectures such as "what," "oh."

:lol:

<---Guilty!

[rebelbowtie]

As am i

[FordeatinZ71]

what she said...

[Brody57]

from urban dictonary...

"A post whore is somebody who posts mostly meaningless messages consisting of one word or just emoticons. They have an unsaid ability to magically appear in any thread at any given time to add crucial arguements to the debate at hand. These said crucial arguements include ground-breaking conjectures such as "what," "oh."

:lol:

<---Guilty!

LMAO! I give you mad props for looking that up on Urban dictionary. I got a good laugh out of it lol. You sir, are my hero for the day LOL!!!

[someotherguy]

wat

[Jeff6.0]

;)

[rebelbowtie]

Oh

[FordeatinZ71]

em

[Brody57]

who?

[FordeatinZ71]

you were suppose to say "gee". so then we would have said OMG. geez...

[nick613]

Man my 93 K1500 with a 305 TBI and some minor mods tows my 1600lb boat like its not even there. I bet the straight pipes and the tune are ruining your towing performance. Throw a good exhaust system on there, get a custom tune and I think you will see a huge difference.

[Brody57]

well sh!t! I just ruined that lmao. I didnt see that...bahaha

[Quyonmob]

well sh!t! I just ruined that lmao. I didnt see that...bahaha

:lol:

Now this thread is failing at failing.

[Jeff6.0]

:lol:

Now this thread is failing at failing.

What?



























:looking:

[Brody57]

:lol:

Now this thread is failing at failing.

:word:

[rebelbowtie]

Oh

[Brody57]

em

[rebelbowtie]

Geeeeeeeee

[Jeff6.0]

:clap:

[Brody57]

We didz itttt!!!!!

[Diesel Dan LB7]

we didz itttt!!!!!

omg

[rebelbowtie]

:scared:

[Brody57]

:nopics:

[rebelbowtie]

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/fullcircle87/fd357ff2.jpg

[TheBigBlackHD]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd this thread just got extremely gay!

[Jeff6.0]

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/fullcircle87/fd357ff2.jpg
Why is your car stucking it's fat ass into everything?

EDIT: Meant to say delicious fat ass…

[rebelbowtie]

Cuz the OP never came back? :dunno:

[Brody57]

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/fullcircle87/fd357ff2.jpg

:rice:














BAHAHAHAHAHA! Just kiddin bro!

[rebelbowtie]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5099

Prob can't hotlink that photo. But since this thread is so derailed it's a dyno spread of a B7 AWD A4 like mine with stage 3 100 octane dyno tune and ko4 turbo....328lb/ft tq at 3,300rpm

That's v8 torque territory

[rebelbowtie]

Drive train loss sucks in an "automatic" and AWD car

[TheBigBlackHD]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/19/128846765063563622.jpg

[rebelbowtie]

Fried bologna with 'sketti sauce

[Jeff6.0]

Fried bologna with 'sketti sauce

I was going to fry up a few hotdogs and heat up some beans.
The wifie made me a salad wrap before I could get it going.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Fried bologna with 'sketti sauce

Fried bologna with Texas Pete and extra sharp cheddar with a bit of mustard between to pieces of toast......mmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[rebelbowtie]

Hot damn that sound good

[TheBigBlackHD]

Hot damn that sound good

Its mother lovin delicious!!!!!! Gotta be the block extra sharp cheddar, you know the stuff old folks call "hoop cheese"

[rebelbowtie]

I like spam. I left it all in the cabinet when I moved out of my old apartment though.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Spam is good, but it has to be fried. Liver pudding is also good, cold or fried!

[Jeff6.0]

I like spam.

You just lost me.

[rebelbowtie]

Idk what liver pudding is but venison liverwurst is the shït!! Put it on a sammich which thick ass slice of onion.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Find this:
http://jakecpunut.com/images/2009/05/liverpudding.jpg

Its on point!

[Jeff6.0]

Find this:
http://jakecpunut.com/images/2009/05/liverpudding.jpg

Its on point!

I'd try it! What's with the "do not freeze"?

[TheBigBlackHD]

I dont know, we keep it in the drawer in the fridge with the sandwich meat and cheeses.

[Jeff6.0]

I dont know, we keep it in the drawer in the fridge with the sandwich meat and cheeses.
I've never seen it in Maine. I wonder if thats why. Lots of our food gets frozen on the truck in the middle of winter. You can tell when you eat it. I hate it when I get an apple that's been frozen... it tastes like poo.

[TheBigBlackHD]

Yeah thats some natic NC stuff right there.

[Outlawz2004]

no thanks.

[TheBigBlackHD]

no thanks.

Dont knock it til you try it.

[rebelbowtie]

I'll try it