IFS really that bad?

[BurbanAZ]

I have a 92 K2500 suburban with IFS of course, i always hear how every says its so prone to breaking and how horrible it is. I had a k1500 suburban with ifs that i was pretty hard on and it did fine, but i only had it for a few years. I now have my 3/4 ton suburban with it and now that im getting into longer and longer trips i was it to be reliable. It seems to most of the people i hear talking about how horrible IFS is build mud trucks or rock crawlers or want some huge tire size and lift, thats fine but for overlanding or the type of trips i want i dont need or want that huge tires/ lift. I have run this truck on some pretty tough trails and some decent trips and its done great, i plan on just staying with what i have pretty much (around 33" tires, no lift" because it works well. I go back and fourth on wanting to do a SAS with a dana 60, of course this would be stronger but also cost a bunch. So what do u guys think, is IFS really as bad as some say? is the 3/4 ton IFS alot stronger than the 1/2 ton?

[redchevy914x4]

I have had my 1/2 ton for the last 5 years and I have not worn out a single front end part. Granted I am pretty easy on it and hardly ever go off road or beat on it. Also when I did rebuild the front end over 5 years ago I put on all Heavy Duty Moog parts with a lifetime warranty so that helps. My steering box is original however and it will need to be replaced soon. Not bad for over 275k with big heavy tires and somewhat cranked torsion bars. I think the ifs holds up ok until you get big tires/lift and until you are hard on it off road.

[Chevytodd]

Based on what you stated you wanted to use the truck for, I'd stick with the IFS. If you really want to go off road in hard trails and mud, or just want to build a tank...go SFA. If I had the extra dough, I'd do an SAS but, I'd do it knowing it would be overkill..... and, I'd also be doing a 6BT Swap.... :p

[OG 8 Lug]

I can't stand the t-bar based IFS. Worst ****ing suspension system ever. I much prefer strut front ends, or coil spring IFS. T-bar IFS is fine if you have stock tires, no crank, and don't go offroad. Other than that, it's just not up to par.

[TanTahoe]

It makes a big differance what you are planning on doing with it. I have had my Tahoe lifted with 35's for about 4 years. When lift went on, I replaced everything on the front end ( All four ball joint, all tie rods, hubs, brakes and bushings). I have had to replace tie rods once a year on it and ball joints about 1.5 ago again. I finally got sick of that and now I am in the middle of my SAS.
Never did a lot of mud trips, mostly trail riding up north with a few sandy hill climbs. If you just want it for looks on the street, I dont think it would be too bad.

[BurbanAZ]

It makes a big differance what you are planning on doing with it. I have had my Tahoe lifted with 35's for about 4 years. When lift went on, I replaced everything on the front end ( All four ball joint, all tie rods, hubs, brakes and bushings). I have had to replace tie rods once a year on it and ball joints about 1.5 ago again. I finally got sick of that and now I am in the middle of my SAS.
Never did a lot of mud trips, mostly trail riding up north with a few sandy hill climbs. If you just want it for looks on the street, I dont think it would be too bad.

yea but i dont want to lift, or use 35's. The kind of maint. that ur talking about every couple years though is what im worried about. I dont do alot of mud trips either, but i do some really tough trails and really bad terrain and we go on long trips that take multiple days by ourselves so if i break a major suspension component 2 days into the middle of the desert or mountains im gonna be screwed. I dont care about looks on the street at all, its not my dd and just for trips.

[OG 8 Lug]

You don't want IFS for that. Get stuck in the wrong hole, it could throw off you whole alignment.

[BurbanAZ]

You don't want IFS for that. Get stuck in the wrong hole, it could throw off you whole alignment.
yea thats the kind of thing i worry about. Ive limped home with broken parts before and it sucks, but i was still able to get back. I just worry about breaking something so serious that i cant fix it out there or rig it up just to get me home.

[Chevytodd]

Well, that settles it! SAS and 6BT swap IMO! lol

[BurbanAZ]

Well, that settles it! SAS and 6BT swap IMO! lol

i would love that if i had tons of money to throw at my truck, while im at it i should buy another truck to drive around while im working on this one lol

[nick613]

Man if your running 33s and have 3.73 or lower gear ratio as long as you aren't smoking mud holes at 20+mph you should be able to depend on your front end. Not saying an SAS wouldn't be an improvement I'm just saying it might not quite be worth the hassle. Especially if money is tight. SFAs aren't indestructible either.

IFS is way stronger than alot of people make it out to be.

[BurbanAZ]

Man if your running 33s and have 3.73 or lower gear ratio as long as you aren't smoking mud holes at 20+mph you should be able to depend on your front end. Not saying an SAS wouldn't be an improvement I'm just saying it might not quite be worth the hassle. Especially if money is tight. SFAs aren't indestructible either.

IFS is way stronger than alot of people make it out to be.

yea i have 3.73 gears. Im not saying i want the ifs to be bomb proof, i just want to be able to go as far as i want, like going for a week long offroad trip across desert or something and have confidence that the truck can make it without ifs parts falling apart.

[tahoe 9955]

i run 18-39.5-15s with 5.13 gears on my ifs and thrash it threw mud ect and no problems

[Texsbluethunder]

It sounds like you've been pretty safe so far. Anytime you replace a part upgrade to something stronger. Plan on upgrading the tierod sleeves when those need replacing, and you might want to look at the Congnito idler arm/pitman arm support. http://www.cognitomotorsports.com/products/c746/Pitman_and_Idler_Arm_Support_Kits/Pitman,_Idler_Arm_Support_Kits_-_GMC/GMC_1993-1998_Pitman,_Idler_Arm_Support_Kit.html
It might not fit your truck but worth checking out, it has done wonders to my trucks handling.

I've got 370,000km on my 1/2ton front end with the original balljoints, wheel bearings, and as far as I can tell original CV's. 120,000km of those have been driven fairly hard by me (i.e. trail riding weekly, farm use, towing, half a dozen truck pulls) and almost all of those have been with either 32 or 33" tall tires. I have yet to find a really weak part in the system. All I can say is drive sensibly. If you stuff your 33" tire between soem rocks and hop on the skinny pedal of course somethings gonna let loose, but the same could be said for a dana 30.

If I were you I would just check everything over before and after every trip to make sure it will survive, keep the sand and mud washed off the wear parts and you should be fine. I carry a spare CV shaft, front/rear driveshaft, and a spare CV stub shaft just incase I loose both CV's.]

Alex

[sparg93]

Your IFS is perfect for what you're looking to do...that 3/** is a really nice setup, esp with the 9.25" tcase you have and heavier CV's.

Would a SAS be stronger, absolutely! But "better", probably not if you're building an overland vehicle.

FFR fabrication is making me a one-off set of heavy duty tie rods with heim joints. I can definitely put you in touch with the owner if you're interested. These things are massive over stock and if you brake them, you're not driving it correctly :)

Moog "Problem solver" pitman/idler arm and you're set...add in the cognito brackets and you're in even better shape (but they are $290). I just ordered a set of XRF ball joints (supposedly really tough), but I have no experience with them.

[nick613]

If I were you I would just check everything over before and after every trip to make sure it will survive, keep the sand and mud washed off the wear parts and you should be fine. I carry a spare CV shaft, front/rear driveshaft, and a spare CV stub shaft just incase I loose both CV's.

This, spend a lot of time under the front of that truck pulling on front end parts, looking for leaks, making sure everything is tip top.

[Quyonmob]

.
9.25IFS is a much stronger case than 8.25IFS, and you have bigger CVs too. I offroaded on my half ton nearly daily, and never had a problem with the case, CV's wore out after 200,000mi, pretty normal service life.

Only time that truck ever left me walking was a primary ignition coil... twice... (FAWK YOU MSD!!!)

I did with my old truck, what you do with your truck, and I had a lighter duty truck. You'll get lots of people that complain how weak IFS is, generally their truck is A) lifted/cranked high or B) abused (accusing somone of B is usually met with denial). Quite often people buy cheapo parts, then blame the truck for eating them again...

You'll be fine.




You don't want IFS for that. Get stuck in the wrong hole, it could throw off you whole alignment.

O rly? :thud:

We get it you hate IFS, period. My 84 burb saw more alignments than my 92 ever did.

Ever buy another truck?

[M.A.V.]

I have to agree with everyone in just upgrading. I have the same suspension up front as you and the only time it's ever left me stranded was when I went on a trail on a rainy day, went on a high trail to avoid a rut and slid down into it. My front right tire smashed into the rut and snapped a tie rod end. And people can argue me all they want, but I feel pretty lucky considering that's all that it snapped. I've never had a problem with my IFS not holding up. And plus, my buddy has a 95 powerstroke on 35's, and I have more clearance between my front crossmember and the bottom of his diff. I wanted to do an SAS on the burban for a while, actually up until recently. I'm just going to stick it out with IFS, it's not worth my time or hassel to switch it for the type of off roading I do.

[BurbanAZ]

ok its sounding like im going to just keep my ifs for now. I thought it would do fine for what i wanted to do with the truck and it seems like most people on here seem to agree with me. We take it on long trips but there arent extremely difficult, im not usually rock crawling or jumping though mud ( ive had bad situations on trips where the terrain was much worse than i expected but so far the suburbans done great) I do need to perform some maint. on it but its needed it for a while. I am pretty sure i need to replace the ball joints, and control arm bushings. It starts to shake over 70 and whenever i hit a sharp bump or crack in the road it rattles on the drivers side like there is excessive play somewhere. The truck has 188,000 miles and it doesnt look like its been replaced before so its to be expected. I plan on having this truck for a very very long time since here in AZ we have no rust so the frame and everything on the truck is still completely clean so im sure ill replace all major parts at some point and eventually i may go to a solid axle if i get tires of replacing ifs parts.

[whiplash473]

would a SAS really make that much of a difference in terms of needing alignment?

[Koots]

Travelling over a highway with a solid front axle vehicle vs. one with IFS...there is no comparison IMHO

IFS is the better choice for a daily driven, comfortable truck that will do some offroading.

Plus, if you wanted to throw on a plow to your truck (or a cummins swap :rocking:) all you gotta do is crank the torsion bars to compensate. With SFA and conventional springs, you would need helper springs, air-bags or some other method to fix it. It's not gonna be cheap.

If you really beat on the truck, then yeah, you could probably benefit from a SAS swap. I'd only do it if I broke the diff. I've broken everything but the actual diff on these yet. Just costs more in front end parts but i definitely prefer the ride of my 2500HD to my 83 K5.

[DarkCharisma]

Most everybody you talk to here hates on IFS, but hasn't actually had anything happen aside from regular maintenance on wear parts. I beat the ever-loving sh1t out of my '00 and only ate a hub and ball joint. That includes jumping it.

I wanted to pre-run, but didn't have the kind of IFS I needed. :rolleyes:

[Underpowered]

internet gives many things a bad name, usually a worse name than what it deserves. according to the internet, your IFS will blow apart at the thought of big tires and off roading, the 10 bolt pukes just looking at 35's and the 4l60 will raise the white flag after 100k.

truth is, alot is a crap shoot. sure, i havee seen alot of IF brakage on the trails, but i have seen alot of sfa breakage as well.

IMO your IFS will be just fine with what you are doing with it. carry a few spare parts maybe. most commonly i have seen fail in person are cv's and tie rod ends, both of which are easily carried and changed on the trail so long as you have the proper tools with you. never seen a ball joint, pitman or idler fail on the trail that was not about ready to fail in the first place. carry spares and wheel on.

[whiplash473]

if its outside the ifs world i'm pretty much oblivious.....can someone explain to me without blowing this off topic what the difference is between sfa and sas?

[DarkCharisma]

if its outside the ifs world i'm pretty much oblivious.....can someone explain to me without blowing this off topic what the difference is between sfa and sas?

SFA = Solid Front Axle.
SAS = Solid Axle Swap.

The acronym "SAS" is thrown around a lot since these trucks go from IFS to SFA.

[whiplash473]

i knew what they stood for and thats actually what ended up confusing me i guess lol....forgive my damn big brain.....always getting me into trouble

[sparg93]

glad to see some ppl on here believe in IFS!!

[1998454]

ifs gets used some in real high hp pull trucks without issue.

[Koots]

i knew what they stood for and thats actually what ended up confusing me i guess lol....forgive my damn big brain.....always getting me into trouble

Overthinking things is what usually gets me into trouble...:crazy:


glad to see some ppl on here believe in IFS!!


ifs gets used some in real high hp pull trucks without issue.

The IFS on my 2500HD is still going strong. I've pretty much replaced every damn part of this truck minus the front diff and the engine. The IFS took about 3 years to finally have all of the parts get replaced (bought it in fairly good used condition), but i've had one nearly catastrophic failure of the 14BFF, a burned up 4L80E and NVG-263 T-case die on me in that period of time.

It has no trouble blasting down dirt/snow/ice/gravel covered roads in 4HI, going about 60-70MPH over even some hard bumps, nearly catching air a few times and other such craziness that can be had on those kinds of surfaces :rocking:

[RnuovZ71]

for what 95% of this forums wheelers do, IFS is just fine... Sure IFS can be weak if you can wheel without flooring it and steering hard in 4lo. I only had problem with IFS in technical spots and trails. but for mudding and most trail ridding IFS is just fine.

[OG 8 Lug]

.O rly? :thud:

We get it you hate IFS, period. My 84 burb saw more alignments than my 92 ever did.

Ever buy another truck?

Yeah I'm not a fan of t-bar IFS. I got stuck in a ditch once with my rear end in the mud and my front end on a paved road, I managed to get myself because of 4x4 but as soon as I was on my down the road I could tell my whole alignment got ****ed. I just got an alignment, and after that I could immediately tell it was pulling.

[BurbanAZ]

Overthinking things is what usually gets me into trouble...:crazy:





The IFS on my 2500HD is still going strong. I've pretty much replaced every damn part of this truck minus the front diff and the engine. The IFS took about 3 years to finally have all of the parts get replaced (bought it in fairly good used condition), but i've had one nearly catastrophic failure of the 14BFF, a burned up 4L80E and NVG-263 T-case die on me in that period of time.

It has no trouble blasting down dirt/snow/ice/gravel covered roads in 4HI, going about 60-70MPH over even some hard bumps, nearly catching air a few times and other such craziness that can be had on those kinds of surfaces :rocking:

what was the near catastrophic issue with ur 14bff? just out of curiosity i never even think about anything going wrong with my 14bff.


Yeah I'm not a fan of t-bar IFS. I got stuck in a ditch once with my rear end in the mud and my front end on a paved road, I managed to get myself because of 4x4 but as soon as I was on my down the road I could tell my whole alignment got ****ed. I just got an alignment, and after that I could immediately tell it was pulling.

ive had it in some really tough spots where i figured something would be broken after but never had an issue and never had an issue with alignment either, replaced and upgraded tie rods a while back and i think they helped keep everything aligned, my ball joints are trashed though along with my upper and lower control arm bushings which im not looking forward to doing here soon

[Koots]

what was the near catastrophic issue with ur 14bff? just out of curiosity i never even think about anything going wrong with my 14bff.

I already busted up the pinion bearing on the axle from an off-roading excursion. It only made noise a little, but i had to keep working with it, to make money to fix it (plus that's the only time i'd be able too). Anyway, i still had to keep using it for work.

Then i was 100kms from home, on a 150km drive on a dirt road into the hills. During that drive, the axle got hot enough that it started boiling out of the seals. This made the axle get drier and hotter. It never drained completely but it was down to the bottom of the axle tube...Anyway, this caused extreme wheel/hub bearing heat buildup as well.

Then almost simultaneously, the spider gears decided to break (making my axle a reluctantly random locker) and the wheel bearing race busted to pieces on the driver side. This caused parts of the bearing and race to actual become one with the spindle.

Took me and my coworker 6 hours of filing it down by hand (all we had access too) to fit a new bearing back on. The axle was deemed dead and we bought a used one from a junkyard.

Not exactly a design fault, but it rarely has time to get fixed :lol:

Until now that is :D

[Koots]

Thank ______ (insert deity or spiritual leader here)! that the axle is a full floater...or else i would have lost that whole axle/hub/brakes and tire.

[BurbanAZ]

I already busted up the pinion bearing on the axle from an off-roading excursion. It only made noise a little, but i had to keep working with it, to make money to fix it (plus that's the only time i'd be able too). Anyway, i still had to keep using it for work.

Then i was 100kms from home, on a 150km drive on a dirt road into the hills. During that drive, the axle got hot enough that it started boiling out of the seals. This made the axle get drier and hotter. It never drained completely but it was down to the bottom of the axle tube...Anyway, this caused extreme wheel/hub bearing heat buildup as well.

Then almost simultaneously, the spider gears decided to break (making my axle a reluctantly random locker) and the wheel bearing race busted to pieces on the driver side. This caused parts of the bearing and race to actual become one with the spindle.

Took me and my coworker 6 hours of filing it down by hand (all we had access too) to fit a new bearing back on. The axle was deemed dead and we bought a used one from a junkyard.

Not exactly a design fault, but it rarely has time to get fixed :lol:

Until now that is :D

wow what a crappy situation, seems like a bunch of bad things all seemed to happen at the same time lol


Thank ______ (insert deity or spiritual leader here)! that the axle is a full floater...or else i would have lost that whole axle/hub/brakes and tire.

yea definitely one of the benefits of a ff axle is that the wheel and whole assembly wont just fall off if an axle snaps

[Koots]

I don't think it would work well for you and your BBC, but on my 98 Sierra K1500 (4.3V6), taking the sway bar out made an actual difference in how it would handle offroad and on dirt roads. It wasn't any harder to drive on the road, just would have a bit more suspension movement.

[M.A.V.]

I thought about doing that myself, but I already have enough play in my steering on the road.

[Quyonmob]

I thought about doing that myself, but I already have enough play in my steering on the road.

Wouldn't create any play, will just lean more on off ramps. I had my 92 disconnected for years... Most 88 IFS trucks didn't even get a sway bar.

[Koots]

It definitely felt like it followed the road more than before, instead of fighting against it to keep the body straight.

It even felt better going over washboard bumps off-road and I had perfectly good set of poly bushings in my sway bar and whole front suspension.

[ChevyLs1z]

No problems with ifs...but is expensive to lift

[DarkCharisma]

Well, there have been worse thread digs in history... :dunno:

It's not that expensive to lift. $1500 is cheaper than tires anymore. :lol:

[surredneck66]

the t bar set up sucks but i must say my 99 with a 2 inch crank has been beaten harder than gm ever intended it to be (i drive it like a pre runner, jumps, high speed off roading ext...) and i have no problems with the t bars or a arms. if i where to do a major front end over haul i would go with long travel A arms and coil overs.