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Solid Axle Conversion Tech

This is a discussion on Solid Axle Conversion Tech within the Offroad forums, part of the General Discussion category; Solid Axle Conversion on the 88-98 GMC/Chevrolet This question is asked so often I decided to write a tech article ...

  1. #1
    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Solid Axle Conversion Tech


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    Solid Axle Conversion on the 88-98 GMC/Chevrolet

    This question is asked so often I decided to write a tech article about the ever so curious solid axle swap. Most people jump straight into their questions regarding a SAS on the IFS Gm because of the horrible reputation from the "hard-core" off-roaders. I myself have run many different lifts and tire sizes on IFS and I can vouch personally it is strong enough for the average off-roader. Fact to fact the comparison is totally apples to oranges. It can be debated for hours and get no where, it's all a matter of opinion. Everyone's scenario is different. Think about your options before you take the plunge.

    The swap is straight forward and very easy for a person of average skill the hardest part is collecting the parts. (Unless you have a large budget)

    Parts you will need to pull off the swap:

    Axles: Depending on their condition and age, I would recommend rebuilding the axles you use. If not a total rebuild at least replace the seals and grease all bearings. Also do not forget to re-gear! This is not a must unless you plan on running much larger tires.

    Front Axle: Look for a Ford High Pinion front axle out of the 78-79 year model trucks. The axles are driver-side differentials with a higher pinion which will help the front drive-line angles. You must also change the outers to Dana 60 Chevrolet outers if you wish to run matching lug pattern wheels if you are not using a matching set. You may use a GM axle which is much easier to find.* These axles however, are passenger side differentials so they will not work with your stock transfer case so you will have to run another. (If you wish to run a GM front more information on the transfer case is below)

    Rear Axle: If you wish to keep your stock rear end that is fine, just remember the common axle to tire size guide. If you are increasing to 1 ton or even 3/4 ton you will need to replace your rear axle. If you are lucky your donor truck will have matching axles (i.e., Dana 60's). If you cannot find a matching set then I would recommend the 14 bolt full float rear axle. This is the strongest GM axle made and there are plenty available. Detroit lockers are also cheap for them.

    Brackets: Most people choose to make their own brackets. I personally was going to but after talking with a few people about home made brackets I decided not to. If you're a good welder to each his own. I am a very good welder; I just preferred the ORUs style. Being the main base of the entire build I strongly recommend buying them. The engineering and guaranteed fit is worth it. ORU usually takes 3 weeks to get a set to your door from the day of ordering, so be sure to plan accordingly.* (FYI the ORU kit also adds at least 3" of lift to the front-end of the truck.) www.offroadunlimited.com* If you choose to make your own then I would recommend welding a cross member across the front frame rails and then attach front spring hangers from a 73-87 GM. For the front lift spring mount toward the back of the hanger I would use the OEM rear tension hangers. I have seen this done and will save some of the lift part of your budget (as you can incorporate some lift into the cross member). Just remember I have never used that method myself.* I have only done researched and it looks like the best and easiest way to line it up correctly. No matter which way you go, I recommend bolting and running a bead around all brackets.

    Lift: When ordering a lift for your newly solid axle truck you will need to order a 73-87 GM suspension lift. They are fairly cheaper, but remember do not order a complete lift only, what you need! I only used front springs and front and rear brake lines along with 4 shocks. The rest will be of no use for you as the steering linkage is all different and the rear springs are too short for the newer body style truck. For the rear depending on how high you're going you can order large springs from a big IFS lift company such as: FULLTHROTTLE or WHIPLASH. If you are only going up 10" and below you can use super lift springs and a block or shackle flip combination. www.4wheelparts.com

    Transfer Case = If you don't go with a Ford axle and choose to use a Chevy Axle you will need a new T-case. It really depends on what kind of transmission you have. Most GM transmissions are a direct bolt-on to one of the New Process transfer cases (NP208 NP205 NP203). If you wish to use a non bolt-on transfer case go to Advance Adapters.* They have every combination adapter you would need. www.advanceadapters.com

    Now that you have a nice yard ornament solid axle GM you will need to address quite a few more items before the truck is near drivable.

    Steering: You must run crossover! I'm not even going to mention how to use another setup because I think steering should in no way be overlooked. ORU sells a total crossover kit for the SAS but I recommend fabbing or having your own fabricated. The idea is very simple a drop pitman, arm drag-link tie rods, and a machined steering arm on the passenger knuckle. DO NOT RUN A BENDED DRAG LINK. www.offroadunlimited.com

    Brakes: Replace the pads, calipers, and rotors on your axles. If you are running larger axles, you will also now have larger brakes.* Just remember to get extended brake lines and be sure they are long enough for the suspensions full cycle.

    Panhard bar: No one really mentions running a Panhard bar on the front axle while doing a SAS but after running without one, I 100% recommend it. It helps steering and also eliminates doglegging while driving.

    Drive line: Front and rear shafts must be extended for the amount of lift you have. A local shop can extend your drive-line and if you don't have a local shop give www.highangledriveline.com a call.


    If anyone has anything to add please do so. If you see any mistakes please also inform me so they can be corrected. I wrote this in hopes of being able to help someone wanting to take on this project.
    91gmc2500 likes this.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
    00' F-350 PSD CC 14" on 44's
    89' GMC K-1500 D60/14ff 12" on 40's
    85 Toyota (Tons of parts to install I just have no time)

  2. #2
    salas poser
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    Good work DirtySotuh, just a little more info to add since I get this alot too.

    Front Axles:
    Like DirtsySouth mentioned your prime axle choice would probably be a 78-79 Ford Dana 60. It can be found in all F-350 and a certain special packaged F-250's. Its is high pinion, king pin,has a spring pad width of 32.5", and uses the standard 8x6.5" bolt pattern. It is similar to the 86-91 F-350 front axles except that the springs are inboard 2" which helps eliminate tire rub on the leaf spring at full steering lock. The advantage to high pinion is increased driveline angle (around 3.5" above a standard cut pinion) and around a 20% increase in ring and pinion strength.
    Next would be an 86-97 Dana 60 from an F-350. They are all high pinion with a 36.5" spring pad width and 8x6.5" bolt pattern. From 86-91 they used king pins and in 92 changed to the ball joint style. The king pin style is the more desired because it is usually cheaper and easier to do steering, as well as stronger. With a ball joint style you either need a custom knuckle (ORU, Dynatrac) or machining on the knuckle to accept studs for a steering arm.
    If you dont want the strength increases from a Dana 60 (or the price that comes with it) there is always a Dana 44 or Dana 50 front axle. The most desirable Dana 44 would be from 77-79 F-250 because they are high pinion. pre 77 ford Truck Dana 44's will also work but the are "low pinion" aka straight cut axles. The Dana 50 axle can be found in 99-2002 F-250 and F-350 SRW (single rear wheel) trucks. They are not very desirable because they use a 8x170mm bolt pattern unlike the common 8x6.5.
    All the previous axle mentioned Can be used with the stock transfer case but most use 8x6.5" bolt pattern. If you want to run the standard chevy/toyota 6x5.5" and keep your stock T-case (drivers side) your choices are Custom dana 60 parts or Run a hybrid Ford/Chevy Dana 44. This involves getting the parts from the knuckle out on a 6 lug Chevy Dana 44 or 10 bolt and swapping them to your Ford Dana 44. There may be variations in axles for certain years so I don't know the exact years which will exchange. This option is not really desirable IMO.

    Here is my price list. This contains pretty much eveyr penny I spent. Many people will say "holy **** thats too much" but don't try to base this as a price of an SFA swap or even an average price. There is many places I look back and could have saved a lot. The only labor a shop did was the fabrication and install of the custom brackets. There is too many factors to make a base price for any SFA swap, it can range from 2k backyard fab/parts laying around type job to 18K ORU suburban. It all depends on what parts you want to you use and what price you get them at, what type of work you are able to do yourself, etc...

    Dana 60 front : 900.00
    14 bolt: 50.00
    Brackets(custom and welded),Brake lines, labor: 1,000.00
    Pro-Comp shock hoops: 250.00
    Front leaf springs 8” skyjacker: 273.90
    Rear leaf springs 5.5” skyjacker : 479.90
    Front driveline: 350.00
    38x16x16.5 Swamper TSL’s: 1,475.00
    16.5 x12 eagle alloys:
    Off Road Design shackle flip: 150.00
    Crossover Steering System: 950.00
    Brake parts: 160.96
    (6)RS5000 shocks:221.70
    Rear gear change: 616.95
    Front gear change:616.95
    Shackles: 22.00
    Polyurethane bushings:63.21
    Shock mounts: 19.12
    Spring pads: 16.20
    Bearings/Seals:188.75
    1310/1350 U-joint: 35.88
    D60 U-joints: 103.42
    U-bolts: 79.18
    1350 cv front shaft: 350.00
    T-case Yoke: 75.00
    1330/1350 U-joint: 34.00
    Exhaust Modification: 41.00
    Cross member Modification: 25.00
    RayM likes this.
    95 gmc with no IFS...82 K30 stock for now
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    Registered User 96chevysfa's Avatar
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    Re: Solid Axle Conversion Tech

    Originally posted by DirtySouthZ71
    Solid Axle Conversion on the 88-98 GMC/Chevrolet


    Panhard bar: No one really mentions running a Panhard bar on the front axle while doing a SAS but after running without one, I 100% recommend it. It helps steering and also eliminates doglegging while driving.
    dude, i thought i was the only one that thinks you need one, i asked a few guys and they did not believe i needed one untill i showed them ho much lateral movement my axle had when i steered. ill have one on my truck soon though, something easily detachable.
    "I ALWAYS WEAR MY BOWTIE TO EVERY FORDS FUNERAL"
    2004 tahoe z71

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    salas poser
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    Re: Re: Solid Axle Conversion Tech

    Originally posted by 96chevysfa

    dude, i thought i was the only one that thinks you need one, i asked a few guys and they did not believe i needed one untill i showed them ho much lateral movement my axle had when i steered. ill have one on my truck soon though, something easily detachable.
    yeah same for me. I took all the measurements for mine and am going to make it the same length and angle as the draglink. If its made that way it shouldn't hinder flex or need to be removed. Do you guys have any pictures of your mounts or how your going to mount them? I was going to weld one mount on the top of the spring plate but not sure if that a good idea yet.
    95 gmc with no IFS...82 K30 stock for now
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    Just curious, are Super duty front springs longer than the 73-87 GM's? If so are they too much to fit properly. I know the trend in newer trucks is to run longer wider leaf springs with less leaves in the pack to improve ride quality. I have seen a recent mag article where someone used these springs on an HD, although with the additional body lift and the way they mounted them on this application, the front hangers showed way too much from the front.

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    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Just curious, are Super duty front springs longer than the 73-87 GM's? If so are they too much to fit properly.
    I do not know the lengh of the Superduty's spring (I think shorter)but what really matters it the length to the center pen. In order to use superduty springs you are going to have to use their style of brackets also. In order to center the axle in the wheel well you will place the rear tension mount (which I do not like because of its through the frame design) very close to the wheel well under the front clips bodymount.


    I know the trend in newer trucks is to run longer wider leaf springs with less leaves in the pack to improve ride quality.
    Mine rides like a John Deere..... Honestly if you don't go custom springs the best ride on leafs Is going to come from Skyjacker.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
    00' F-350 PSD CC 14" on 44's
    89' GMC K-1500 D60/14ff 12" on 40's
    85 Toyota (Tons of parts to install I just have no time)

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    i still lurk Luke2kZ71's Avatar
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    i assume u can use any axle as long as u have the right pirches right? like if i had a dana80 rear and a dana70 front.... as long as the pirches mached up, they are usable.... on the new trucks

    what kind of errors would u get ... as far as abs lights, 4wd lights, ect...
    6.0 Swap, Powerdyne supercharger, SFA, 44" boggers, some other stuff

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    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Luke2kZ71



    i assume u can use any axle as long as u have the right pirches right? like if i had a dana80 rear and a dana70 front.... as long as the pirches mached up, they are usable.... on the new trucks

    what kind of errors would u get ... as far as abs lights, 4wd lights, ect...
    Yes you can use almost any axle you wish as long as the transfer case is on the correct side. As for spring perchs they can always be moved. You ditch the autotrac case and run without ABS. Few people tried to use the Autotrac (Tjandlisa a former member here) did but it burn up shortly after.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
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    FSC Driver Grant's Avatar
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    Just out of curiousity, if someone was to swap out their stock transfer case (NVG 241 or AutoTrac NVG 246), with say, NP205, would that cause any problems as far as the computer is concerned. Hypothetically speaking, everything else remaining stock (Tranny, ring and pinions, etc). I guess I'm asking is, are the gear ratios in the 205 different than the 241 or 246? And if so, how would one reprogram the truck's computer to operate properly (tranny shifting, speedo/odometer readings, etc)? Or would it even matter????

    Did that make any sense?
    '99 Chevy Silverado Z71 - Rancho Suspension - 305/70-16 Nitto Terra Grapplers

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    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Just out of curiousity, if someone was to swap out their stock transfer case (NVG 241 or AutoTrac NVG 246), with say, NP205, would that cause any problems as far as the computer is concerned

    I believe there may be a problem with the electric actuator in the front differental other than that I cant think of anything else. Ofcourse your pushbuttons and light will no longer work.


    Originally posted by Grant
    I guess I'm asking is, are the gear ratios in the 205 different than the 241 or 246? And if so, how would one reprogram the truck's computer to operate properly (tranny shifting, speedo/odometer readings, etc)? Or would it even matter????

    Did that make any sense?
    Yes the gears are different the Np205 is geared 1:96:1 while the Np241C has a 2.72:1 gear ratio. So you will be gearing higher if you did this swap. Also when swapping to a 205 in your model truck you will have to use a Ford 205 for the driverside differental.
    The Ford bolt pattern is round with six bolts the old chevy is a hour glass pattern . The newer model 205 cases in the chevys have a round pattern but I do not believe its the same. If you are still interested in going to a Np205 give www.advanceadapter.com a call. They carry an adapter that mates the Ford 205 to a Gm 700r4 and newer 460le it comes with a new shorter than normal shaft for the trannsmission and the adapter is only 4" thick it has a spud shaft built into it with a bearing as well.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
    00' F-350 PSD CC 14" on 44's
    89' GMC K-1500 D60/14ff 12" on 40's
    85 Toyota (Tons of parts to install I just have no time)

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    FSC Driver Grant's Avatar
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    OK, I guess you completely missed the point of my questions. I wasnt concerned about the actually connecting of stuff together, I was more curious about the gearing differences between the transfer cases and their effect on the computer. The trucks computers (at least on the newer ones) are really sensitive, along with the 4L60E trannys. I'd think that with such a change, the computer will make the tranny shift way out of whack, and none of the info showing on the dashboard would be anywhere near accurate. I'm just wondering if there is any way to get it all working in harmony again. You know of any ways to get all the electronics working properly? I cant think of any ways to get it all the changes accounted for in the computer. See what I'm saying?

    The more I think about it, the more I believe swapping transfer cases on newer trucks is a bad idea, since damn near everything on these trucks are controlled by computers.

    BTW, I have no intention on doing any of this stuff to my truck. Just asking, for curiousity's sake.
    '99 Chevy Silverado Z71 - Rancho Suspension - 305/70-16 Nitto Terra Grapplers

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    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Im not quite understanding you bro wait till 95gmcd6014 get on the board he is probably better with the computer issues than I am.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
    00' F-350 PSD CC 14" on 44's
    89' GMC K-1500 D60/14ff 12" on 40's
    85 Toyota (Tons of parts to install I just have no time)

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    Got body damage? slamchops's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add this:

    If you do decide to use the Dana 44, find one with the flat top knuckles (very important for crossover steering). You will have to have the passenger side knuckle machined, tapped, and threaded to match the driver side knuckle. This means you install 3 pieces of all-thread (which you can get from the GM dealer). This way you can attach the steering arm to the passenger side knuckle. Most any machine/fab shop can do this for you.
    Lock It Up Off-Road
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    Registered User 96chevysfa's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Grant
    OK, I guess you completely missed the point of my questions. I wasnt concerned about the actually connecting of stuff together, I was more curious about the gearing differences between the transfer cases and their effect on the computer. The trucks computers (at least on the newer ones) are really sensitive, along with the 4L60E trannys. I'd think that with such a change, the computer will make the tranny shift way out of whack, and none of the info showing on the dashboard would be anywhere near accurate. I'm just wondering if there is any way to get it all working in harmony again. You know of any ways to get all the electronics working properly? I cant think of any ways to get it all the changes accounted for in the computer. See what I'm saying?

    The more I think about it, the more I believe swapping transfer cases on newer trucks is a bad idea, since damn near everything on these trucks are controlled by computers.

    BTW, I have no intention on doing any of this stuff to my truck. Just asking, for curiousity's sake.
    i guess ill chime in here, i used to run a gm 208, and now im running the 205. it does screw up the shifting hwile only in 4 lo, it doesnt shift on its own, you can force a 2nd gear shift from the column, but other than that, you gotta rev it up while in gear, and when you let off the gas it will shift. ive tried to find solutions to this problem but found no solution, sean gibson(i forgot his fsc name) has the same problem that i have with his 205, i just learned to live with it and i get along fine without it shifting right.
    "I ALWAYS WEAR MY BOWTIE TO EVERY FORDS FUNERAL"
    2004 tahoe z71

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    Wow, this is perfect timing, Im about to have my truck go through the SFA swap, so heres some quick questions, now Im going to be running 37" or 38" tires for now but once truck gets old 44s. Im getting the Kit ORU makes for $500 so im using that and I just wanted to know how much more lift I will need in front and back after Im done to install those 38"S? Also what would be the best lift for the front to make it ride pretty nice also? I have a 92 Ford dana 60 for the front that I got for $500 which I hope will reduce driveshaft angle? and a 14 Bolt FF for the rear for $150. Now what gears should I get for running 38"s so I have good mpg and still good low and top end, maybe 4.88s? or just 4.56? Also the local shop guy says that I will have bad front drive shaft angle with any lift over 6" in the front? This true or not, what can I do to fix it? Last What where can I get that panhard bar and how much is it? Also if 95gmcd6014 and you other SAS could please post your prices and parts that would rock, i know that 95gmcd6014 had them posted and I saw them on a thread but now cant find them. Also forgot Im going with the crossover steerin which will work good with 92 ford dana 60?
    ______________________________
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  16. #16
    Always Broke DirtySouthZ71's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JerrysZ71
    Wow, this is perfect timing, Im about to have my truck go through the SFA swap, so heres some quick questions, now Im going to be running 37" or 38" tires for now but once truck gets old 44s. Im getting the Kit ORU makes for $500 so im using that and I just wanted to know how much more lift I will need in front and back after Im done to install those 38"S? Also what would be the best lift for the front to make it ride pretty nice also? I have a 92 Ford dana 60 for the front that I got for $500 which I hope will reduce driveshaft angle? and a 14 Bolt FF for the rear for $150. Now what gears should I get for running 38"s so I have good mpg and still good low and top end, maybe 4.88s? or just 4.56? Also the local shop guy says that I will have bad front drive shaft angle with any lift over 6" in the front? This true or not, what can I do to fix it? Last What where can I get that panhard bar and how much is it? Also if 95gmcd6014 and you other SAS could please post your prices and parts that would rock, i know that 95gmcd6014 had them posted and I saw them on a thread but now cant find them. Also forgot Im going with the crossover steerin which will work good with 92 ford dana 60?



    Your answers are in this thread.
    ~SkankFab Off-road~
    00' F-350 PSD CC 14" on 44's
    89' GMC K-1500 D60/14ff 12" on 40's
    85 Toyota (Tons of parts to install I just have no time)

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    Ok I have looked all ever and didnt find the info I needed. If you use the ford dana 44, do you use the ford knuckles or the chevy knuckles? I understand the part about using the chevy spindles(the part that the bearings ride on) to get the 6 lug pattern on the front. But what about the knuckles? If someone already answered this im sorry, I missed it. I know that the ford and chevy use the same ball joints, But I myself have never actually tried to put a chevy knuckle on a ford housing to see if it does indeed fit. I know someone out there has already done this and can shed some light on it.

  18. #18
    salas poser
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    I forgot to put that in there but I think the chevy and ford dana 44's use different spindle patterns but I'm not 100% sure. I know it differs between chevy and ford 60s.
    95 gmc with no IFS...82 K30 stock for now
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    So does anybody know about the steering knuckles? Do you use the chevy or the ford knuckles?

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    Registered User RedFireZ71's Avatar
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    So I guess the main question I have is wether it's better to look for the rare, high-pinion Ford Dana 60 or settle for a 73-89 axle and swap for a right hand transfer case (205-208?). Either way it sounds like you lose ABS and Autotrac.
    '01 Dark Red Z71 ECSB 5.3L, 6" SuperLift (w/ springs), 3/4 ton bars, Ford keys, 3" PA body lift, 36X14.5X16 PJs on 16X12 M/T Classic Locks, 4.56 Motives, Auburn Pro, T/A rear-end girdle (not gay), Flowmaster Super 40, UPD, HPP3, 160 stat, MSD wires, free mods, CST skidplate.

 

 
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