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Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

This is a discussion on Engine swap in my 93, what to use? within the Performance forums, part of the General Discussion category; I have a 93 1500 2wd with a tbi 350 and 4 speed auto. I'm thinking about doing an engine ...

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    Engine swap in my 93, what to use?


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    I have a 93 1500 2wd with a tbi 350 and 4 speed auto. I'm thinking about doing an engine swap to a later model engine with more hp and better fuel injection. Assume that I have access to pretty much any motor that was available in a chevy truck for the past 20 years. What motor would you put in and why? I'm looking for more power, better drivability, better mpg and better upgradability along with the ability to be swapped in with minimal modification. I was thinking about a later model 5.7 vortec, but I dont really know much about those motors or what it would take to swap it into my truck. I have a fully equipped shop and access to all the parts I could need. I just put a new radiator for my 350 in the truck so if the new motor was able to work with that radiator, that would be great. So let me know what you guys would do and what I need to know about the swap. BTW this will probably be a engine and trans swap as a whole unit, so if I need something special out of donor truck to control the trans, let me know that too. Thanks.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
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    Registered User goose21's Avatar
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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Here's an extra simple solution:
    If your current 350 is in good shape yet, why not just get a set of Vortech heads and bolt those on? Most minimal modifications possible on that route. More power for sure. Better MPG? Probably not. Extra simple? You bet.
    You could port and polish them for a little better airflow and a few extra ponies.
    Of course, you'll need a different intake for the Vortechs. Maybe add a TPI setup from a 3rd gen? Definitely better throttle response there. Then, of course, you'll need the computer to go with the TPI setup...
    That's my vote. Just modify what you've got.
    _______________
    '93 Chevy Cheyenne 1/2 ton W/T, 4.3L auto, all stock

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    If it was me . . . .I would locate an LT1 and T56. But that's just me.
    Founding member of the Indiana Chapter of the Teeny Weeny Club for Secure Adult Males

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    The stocker has 195000 miles on it. It runs strong as far as I can tell, but I've just taken it around the block so far. Id like to get something with multiport injecton and less miles. The biggest thing is I want to get a trans & engine together cause I'm more worried about the milage on the trans then the motor. Plus it looks like there are more supercharger and turbo kits available for the new motors then the tbi motors. When I finally get the new motor ready for my Camaro, I plan on rebuilding that TPI motor with a stealthram for the truck and putting on a spare turbo (or turbos if I can find another one to match the 14G I have) that I have on the truck. But thats at least a year or so away. I have my own shop and a really good connection at a local junkyard where I can get engines and trannys for insanely cheap. Hence wanting to install something different. Anyway, thanks for your input so far. Keep it coming.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    I would go for something with lots of torque to get the beast moving. Have you thought of a big block? Small blocks can be pretty potent though. I have a TPI 350 with computer and harness I was going to put in my 4.3L truck. I think I am just going to run a carb, like a 650 or something, because to have my truck harness reworked and add a speed density computer... I think it will be too much money. I think the tuned port would be good for a truck, but I don't have the means to run it. With the carb, I plan on rebuilding it, and fully working the heads to hopefully make around 450 ft-lbs and 450 hp.
    1994 Chevrolet C1500 L56 6.5L Turbo Diesel, Long box, std cab, 4L80E, true-trac 3.90, 186,000 miles, 4" straight piped exhaust, modified air intake, EAlloy 217's & 275/55R18(forsale), black ss steelies & 31x10.50R15's for winter
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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    To swap in a Vortec engine is very easy. You can even use your TBI injection if you want. her is the conversion manifold.
    http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/737/...let-Intake.htm
    This intake allows you to use your TBI truck, fuel pump, ignition, distributer, exhaust, the only thing that changes is the engine itself.

    To run 100% it would need a chip. If you went stock TBI for a stock Voretc, I could see you getting a small mileage increase.

    This engine is teh HT 383, it has Vortec heads and a Vortec 4 bolt main block. It is rated at 325 hp and 415 lb/ft of torque. Just grab the above intake manifold and you are ready to go.http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/...e-Assembly.htm

    I cant really suggest you go to teh Vortec injection because f its un-upgradeable 19 lb injectors, which limits you to under 400 hp at the crank.

    for anothe $700 you can get the ZZ 383 with 425 hp and 465 lbft of torque, tis engine uses the Fasburn aluminum Vortec pattern heads.
    http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/...e-Assembly.htm

    Here is a new Vortec engine with 2 bolt mains http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/123/...-C-K-G-L31.htm

    Here is a Vortec with 4 bolt mains for the same price http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/123/...r-8500-GVW.htm

    The tBI injection isnr as bad as everyone thinks, at least you can use some larger 454 injectors along with a 454 throttlebody. the Vortec injection is very limited in this respect. The TPI is a really good choice for builing a torquey engine, but expecting the stock runners which are over 20" long to make high rpm power is too much.

    Then there is the Ramjet crate engine, 350 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque, just hook up, exhaust, electricity and cooling and fuel and away you go. Its really just a Vortec 350 with roller rockers and injection.

    I would do the TBI/Vortec conversion intake and either a 350 or 383 with Vortec heads.

    peace

    Pauly
    Last edited by Pauly; 11-02-2005 at 08:27 PM.
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Thanks Pauly, thats what I was looking for. If I put Vortec motor in the truck and reuse the stock TBI, what kind of gains will I see over the stock TBI motor, I.E. what is better on the vortec motor, Im assuming heads, but what else. And what year trucks so i be looking at to get the 5.7 Vortec out of? Thanks again.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
    01 Buick Regal GSE Supercharged

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by 88blkiroc
    Thanks Pauly, thats what I was looking for. If I put Vortec motor in the truck and reuse the stock TBI, what kind of gains will I see over the stock TBI motor, I.E. what is better on the vortec motor, Im assuming heads, but what else. And what year trucks so i be looking at to get the 5.7 Vortec out of? Thanks again.
    The 1996-99 trucks OBS(old body style), the 1997-2001 G-Vans(fullsize vans, I am not sure exactly when the FS vans dropped TBI, but if it isnt TBI and still has a 350, it is a Vortec 350), there are some 4500 series cab and chassis trucks that had the Vortec350 available into 2005.

    The 1500 series trucks have 2 bolt main bearing caps, the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks come with 4 bolt main bearing caps. Dont worry if you cant find a 4 bolt main engine, the 2 bolts are just fine.

    Most of the gain is in the cylinder heads, Vortec engines are RPO number L31 for a 350 and L30 for a 305. The Vortec 350's have more power than teh TBI engines because:
    1) The cylinder heads, teh Vortec heads actually are the highest flowing OEM cylinder heads ever offered on a smallblock Chev. this factory heads actually outflows the Phase 2 Bowtire Racing cylinder head. The intake ports are raised whan compared to conventional smal;lblock chev heads. The heads are the key components that make the Vortec engines perform at a higherlevel than TBI engines. The heads are the key factor when building hp. My friend has a set of L31 Vortec heads on his 85 IROC and with the GM Hotcam kit, has spun his engine to over 7200 rpm. Anotherfriend uses Vortec heads on hios race car and revs 7500 rpm WITH power with the heads. The Vortec heads cant be touched for bang for buck power production. Its really surprising that they were released in a truck. the Vortec ports are direct copies of the Chev LT1 Corvette and f-body cylinder heads, except they are cast of iron, and not aluminum. The Vortecheads have a 170cc intake port, 64cc chamber volume and are sought after by many hot rodders.

    2) All Vortec engines have roller lifters and induction hardened camshafts. The rollertipped lifters reduce friction and provide increasedfuel economy, GM testing has revealed 5 hp and 3.5% increased fuel econmomy over comaprable flat tapped lifter cams. the rollercams are more expensive because they are induction hardened and are made harder than normal cams, because of the very small contact area ofthe rollerlifter and cam lobe.

    3) CSFI Central port sequential fuel injection, the GEN 1-E engines ahve sequential fuel injection, this is when the fuel delivery is actually timed to the opening of the intake valve, rather than just dumping fuel into the intake runner, the computer knows exactly when the intake valve is about to open, then injects fuel by pulsing the fuel injectors just before and while the intake valve is open. Sequebtial injection has been tested to show a 5 hp increase over conventional "batch fire" injection, the reason manufactures have added the cost and expense of sequential injection, is because it provides much lower emissions. Dont install sequential injection fot power gains, you wont find them.

    The Vortec engines use a non-reusable front timing cover with 8 bolts not 12-this cover holds the crank position sensor for use in teh Vortec trucks(not needed on your truck), they dont have a mechanical fuel pump provision, have intake manifold that attach with 8 bolts total. I beleive that the 96 and up blocks, cranks and rods are stronger, but I have no proof of this, all I know is that it is more expensive to rebuild a Vortec engne than a TBI engine, could be the rollercam though. There are new part numbers for the 1996 and up blocks do I think that GM redesigned the vortec block, but I have no proof. These engines are very strong and reliable, I have disassembled a few high mile Votec engines some with over 200,000 miles, the insides looked awesome with barely ANY wear at teh top of the cylinderbores, I couldnt even catch my fingernail on the ridge, thats impressive. The rods, crank and pistons have different part numbers than TBI pieces. GM lowered the comp. ratio and added 4 bolt mains in the HD TBI engines for the 3/4 ton an 1 ton 88-95 trucks, in teh 3.4 and 1 ton trucks with the vortec engine, they didnt lower compression, but just added the 4 bolt mains, this tells me that the Vortec engines are stronger than the TBI engines because GM didnt lowercompression to protect the engine from the harmful effects of detonation, but again I have no direct proof of this. Just opinion of a few engine machinists, GM techs and my own studies.

    The TBI engine puts out 200-210 hp and 300-310 lb ft of torque, teh Vortecputs out 255 hp and 330 lb ft of torque. I would say that from the head swap alone you would get 40 hp, add a chip on top of that, I wouldnt be surprised if you could get 50-60 hp with heads and chip with at least 20-30 lbft of torque. These are conservative numbers, you would certainly notice a large increase in acceleration, power and response. If you keep your foot out of it, a small fuel economy gain should also result due to the more effecient heads and rollercam. The factory Vortec L31 cam would work nicely with your TBI computer, a chip will be needed mor max power of course. Youll be able to spin the tires at will.

    there must be people around gere who have done this swap. It made a HUGE difference on my buds IROC. I regularly drive my truck hard, I have over 300 1/4 mile passes, 1000's of street 0-60 tests and lots of kilometers, 2 open difs, 3 lockers, 5 transmissions and I have only lifted teh valvecovers on the engine to change inatke gaskets for leaks and to do my marine intake conversion. It has been an amazing engine, none of my friends can beleive that the engine has survived, I bought the trcuk in 1998 with 18,000 km's, I may not always daily drive this truck, but I will always have it, I know a good truck when I get 1. the only reason I sold my 1992 rcsb 350 was because I wanted the Vortec, the Vortec/TBI conversion manifolds were not available back then. Go for it, you'll love it.

    pauly
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Another difference in the vortec 5.7 and TBI 5.7 is that the TBI engine had 8.3 compression where the vortec has 9.4 compression. I love my TPI swap I've done. If was pretty simple to do and everything works like a charm. However, you can get some nice power numbers out of a 355 vortec heads and the TBI system...just upgrade your tbi components with some cop car injectors or flow matched ones.

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Ok, so the plan would be to get a 350 Vortec out of a 96-99 truck, put the GMPP TBI manifold on it with the stock TBI (possibly switch up to the 454 TB and Injectors) and get a chip burnt for it (from where?) and thats pretty much it huh? I'm assuming that the 96-99 trucks use a 4L60e isntead of the regular 700r4 and I'd need the computer to run it (in that case Id just rebuild the 700 I have). That doesn't sound all that bad. Thanks very much for the help Pauly, I really appreciate all the information that you provided. If I can ever help you out, just let me know. Thanks again.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
    01 Buick Regal GSE Supercharged

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by 88blkiroc
    Ok, so the plan would be to get a 350 Vortec out of a 96-99 truck, put the GMPP TBI manifold on it with the stock TBI (possibly switch up to the 454 TB and Injectors) and get a chip burnt for it (from where?) and thats pretty much it huh? I'm assuming that the 96-99 trucks use a 4L60e isntead of the regular 700r4 and I'd need the computer to run it (in that case Id just rebuild the 700 I have). That doesn't sound all that bad. Thanks very much for the help Pauly, I really appreciate all the information that you provided. If I can ever help you out, just let me know. Thanks again.

    Yup
    1. Grab a Vortec 350 from a 96-99 truck.
    2.Obtain the Vortec/TBI Conversion intake manifold.(454 TB and injectors)
    3. Get a chip burned,(Jesse at http://www.wait4meperformance.com/ or Ed Wright at Fastchip http://www.fastchip.com/)
    I would try Jesse 1st as he said he would burn a prom chip for us guys for free!! he is a great guy, people have had trans troubles and even though the troubles may not have been his fault, he offered to send parts to the guy to fix his trans free of charge, not many people would even consider that. Eds chips are $159.00US, I have had mied relations with Fastchips, he does good tuning though.
    4 Install the engine, manifold, TBI chip and enjoy the new power and torque. It will drive like a new truck.

    While the engine is out, may I suggest you might install a higher stall torque converter, I have found the S-10 L35 V6 TC to be a nice bang for buck mod. Your towing rating is unaffected but the engine gets into the power faster and rpms drop less between shifts at WOT and at part throttle. These TC's can be had for $200US brand new, I got 1 for free from a friend, I have had no troubles with it, and I am not nice on it. I can get 2500 rpm of stall in my truck, totally streetable. I dropped 1-2 tenths off of my 60ft time and after the trans shifts into the next gear at WOT, the truck just keeps accelerating instead its acceleration hestitating slightly as the rpms recover. Nice little mod, just a suggestion though.

    Your truck being a 1993 allready has a 4l60e transmission, in 92 the trucks used the 700r4, 93 was the 1st year for the 60e. The shifts are electronically controlled in your truck, there shouldnt be a TV cable on your t-body. If you look at the trans, there should be a big plug on it with a bunch of wires coming out of it, that means its a 4l60e.

    I am pretty sure the 88-95 350 under 8600 gvrw had a 9.3 comp ratio and teh 350 TBI over 8600 gvrw (HD2500 and 3500 truck) had the lower comp ratio and 4 bolt mains.

    No problem 88blckiroc, thats what I am here to do, to help some folks out, thanks for the offer, I will take you up on it soem day. nejoy the ride, let us know how it turns out.

    pauly
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    One last question (for now), the 454 TB and injectors, can that come out of any truck with a 454 or are the 454SS ones better? Id imagine that the 4545SS ones would be harder to find if they are different then the standard 454 trucks. Thanks again.

    BTW, Pauly, do you have any pics of your truck? id love to see where the exhaust exits on your truck and hows its routed if ya have any pics from under the truck. I was planning on doing duals with an exit on each side but I'm trying to figure out the best way to keep the exhaust from getting too close to the fuel tank. Thanks.
    Last edited by 88blkiroc; 11-05-2005 at 10:31 AM.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
    01 Buick Regal GSE Supercharged

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    The standard truck 454 TBI engine and the 1990 454SS is rated at 230 hp and 385 lb/ft of torque, the 454 SS 454 from 91-93 was rated at 255hp and 405lb/ft. The intake manifold was redesigned for 1991 to reposition the fuel injectors

    Someone also mentioned looking into "cop car" Caprice injectors.

    http://www.westerscustomtuning.com/19.php

    this is Wester's Garage price list, it has a few different TBI injectors available


    ***Fuel Injectors An injector that's cleaned, flow matched to a set (2 for TBI and 4-8 for other applications) and calibrated for your application. ***Cleaned and flow matched injectors--yours or a core set. We require your old injectors as cores.
    $69.95 each Kit


    ***New GM TBI High Flow
    Static Flow Rate: 80.9 lb/hr @ 13PSI for 1988-1995 GM TBI
    ***Purchase outright--no core--not reman injector
    $169.00 each Kit

    This is an excerpt from this site
    http://www.tbichips.com/TBIMODS.htm
    6. The TBI unit. The stock 305 and 350 TBI unit has 2 (1 11/16") bores which flow 400 cfm of air. Compared to a 650 Holley carb that is bad. Holley does make an aftermarket TBI unit for the truck that will work with the cars with a little work and it has 2" bores and 65lb/hr injectors. It flows 670 cfm of air and is a must on a 350 or with aftermarket heads. I know longer recommend using a 454 throttle body. Too many issues with different TPS sensor and rewiring the IAC valve and the throttle bodies just being wore out. Get your TBI bored out at www.xtremefi.com It may cost a little more but I feel you will have less headaches.


    7. Injectors. GM released 5 sizes of TBI injectors 40lb/hr for the 4.3 and 5L engines, 55lb/hr for 350 engines, 65lb/hr for cop car 350 engines and (80lb/hr and 90lb/hr) for 454 engines. Depending on how much horsepower you make you may need on of the other injectors. While your at it make the regulator adjustable. http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/tbi-afpr.shtml I haven't been recommending the 454 injectors for the 350 motors either lately as using 350 injectors with increased fuel pressure seems to work better. Also, consider a new fuel pump from www.xtremefi.com as the stocker is only good for about 270hp.


    8. The chip. Depending on how many of these modifications you do the more the need for a custom chip or chips.


    11. Torque converter for you automatic lovers. The stock V8 converter stalls at 1400 rpm which is very low. The 95+ S10 4.3L V6 torque converter stalls 2000-2200 rpm. That 600 rpms will help keep your engine in its powerband and thus make it faster. If you go with a cam with over 204 duration @ .050" then a higher stall would be advised for most street applications. The 2000 stall is a good upgrade that won't screw up your gas mileage, burn up your trans, break the budget, or be unbearable on the street.

    NOTE: I now sell these 2000 rpm stall converters. http://motors.search.ebay.com/precis...Z2QQsamcmZ6000 I like the precision brand as they have been nice and reliable for me and my transmission shop swears by these things. I will put a note in there about them as well. If your in the NC area, Friendly Auto Transmission service in High Point NC does all my transmission work and They will treat you well.


    Check out this link too

    http://www.cfm-tech.com/catalog/default.htm


    My trucks exhaust, exits the long tubes then uses dual 2.5" headpipes into dial 2.5" catalytic convertsre in the stock location on the passenger side, these cats feed into a dual in/out muffler with 2.5" inlet/outlets, then curls towards the passengerside back wheelwell and I have dual 4" tips hanging just below the boxside just infront of the passengerside rear tire.

    ALL the exhaust is coming out the passenger side, just like the Ford Lightning trucks did. the exhaust shop wouldnt even touch my truck if I wanted the exhaust coming out both sides, with the drivers side coming any wheres near the fuel tank, unless I use a fuel cell mounted inder the bed in front of the rear bumper, I am stuck with a single side exit exhaust.

    I dont have any pics of it at this time, I am getting a digital camera soon, so I will get some pics up shortly. I really preferred teh 87 and earler trucks with teh tanks outside the framerails, I used to be able to run true duals all teh way back, that was much better IMO, matbe not for saftey though.

    A fuel cell is the only way I think.

    take care
    pauly
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

  14. #14
    Registered User yellowsilver's Avatar
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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    572 cubic inch GM Crate engine. That truck will be nasty!

  15. #15
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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    A few years ago we put a set of vortec heads on the 350 in a 1991 full sized Cadillac. We used a Holly manifold and kept the original TBI system but used larger injectors, an adjustable fuel regulator and a performance chip. It really increased the performance, and would definately smoke the tires if you power braked it. We figured it added about 50-60 hP, but it was never dyno'ed

    But the effort was wasted as the perp that owned the Cadillac, was more into being one of them low life, low riders than an outstanding citizen and respectable street racer.
    Diamond Jim
    98 Burb, 5.7L, 2500LS, 4X4; 80 GMC 383, , Long bed; 74 Dually Flatbed 350; 73 Short bed 350 4X4; 41 Chevy Master Deluxe, 327/375hp Rochester FI; 89 Fleetwood Bounder, 2 ton Chevy Chassis, 454/TH425

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    Re: Engine swap in my 93, what to use?

    Well, I'm gona call my contact at the local junkyard tomorrow and see what he has laying around. I'll let ya guys know what I pick up.
    93 Chevy C1500 Silverdo 5.7L ECSB
    99 GMC K1500 Suburban 5.7L
    88 Chevy IROC-Z 5.7L
    01 Buick Regal GSE Supercharged

 

 

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