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97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

This is a discussion on 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion within the Performance forums, part of the General Discussion category; i was wondering if any1 had performed a holley stealth ram conversion on a 97 vortec 350 truck to get ...

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    Registered User ssmw183z's Avatar
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    97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion


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    i was wondering if any1 had performed a holley stealth ram conversion on a 97 vortec 350 truck to get rid of that poppet style injector crap...any insight on performance gains, efficiency, work involved, changes, etc... would be greatly appreciated...thanks every1

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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Talk to YenkoST, he just built a wicked motor with a HSR setup.

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  3. #3
    Tbi-MAX
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by AyerForce
    Talk to YenkoST, he just built a wicked motor with a HSR setup.
    wicked indeed... lol

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    Born and Raised Chevrolet YenkoST's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmw183z
    i was wondering if any1 had performed a holley stealth ram conversion on a 97 vortec 350 truck to get rid of that poppet style injector crap...any insight on performance gains, efficiency, work involved, changes, etc... would be greatly appreciated...thanks every1
    The HSR-Holley Stealthram is not emissions legal so if you have to pass the sniffer or visual test...its not for you. Now that being said...lets get to business.

    You will see a loss of low end torque. The HSR uses a tunnel ram design....the power starts to pickup around 2500 rpms and above. The torque curve for the most part is flat from 3500 to 4500 rpms depending on combination. Its really made for 5k and above with the 7" long intake runners.

    Now to do this in a 1997, you will basically have to do a Marine MPFI conversion. "Pauly" can be more specific about that and have a way to tune it like TunerCats.

    You'll need basically everything for a TPI engine...IAC, TPS, 24 lb/hr injectors, TPI camaro throttle cable from a 85-89 or 90-92 depending on the throttle body you get. Now, you might have to rework the accessory brackets b/c the A/C compressor could get in the way of the throttle body.

    The fuel pump will be fine as the stock vortec is good for 60 psi (I believe). The TPI setups run on 43 psi.

    The stock distributor is close to the #7/#8 intake runners but it fits.

    Long story short...do the Marine intake swap and you can retain all of your stuff and have a MPFI for cheaper.

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    Tbi-MAX
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    yea, I mean that is a extensive mod.. it takes money, time, alot of work.. not to mention even more time... also if you want to have a high rpm screamer, it better match up to the rest of your engine build...

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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    i would like to do a vortec marine mpfi conversion but i don't know and can't find the intake to do the swap...any help here??? thanks

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    Born and Raised Chevrolet YenkoST's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Talk to Pauly is his user name here. He will point you in the right direction.

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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Do you want a new or used Marine Intake??

    I went with used and have just under $1000US into my complete conversion including tuning.


    here is what my origional cross ram marine intake supplier has to say.
    11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111
    Two sources for Marine intake manifold assemblies
    .
    My original source for these Marine intake manifolds is no longer in business. I have now discovered two other sources, one sells new, the other a FRESH WATER (not salt water) marine engine recycler and sells used take-offs. Neither of these sources is local to me. Rather than paying for shipping twice, you can purchase the manifold directly yourself, have them delivered to your door step, or to a machine shop of your choosing, and I can sell you what you need to convert it yourself.

    For those of you that want to purchase a NEW assembly -

    Call Randy at KEM Equipment, 503-692-5698 ( http://www.kemequipment.com ) Cost is $760 + shipping to your door. In May 2007, they had over 10 in stock.

    kempower@hotmail.com

    Kem Equipment, Inc.
    10800 S.W. Herman Road
    Tualatin, OR. 97062


    For those of you that want to purchase a USED take off assembly from a fresh water boat (not salt water) -

    Call Roger at Michigan Motorz, 248-554-4400 ( http://www.michiganmotorz.com/ ) Cost varies due to condition and availability, but should be about $500. In May 2007, they had over 5 in stock.

    sales@michiganmotorz.com

    Michigan Motorz
    4706 Fernlee Ave
    Royal Oak, MI 48073

    In the past month, I have had my hands on an intake assembly from each of these two sources. Each intake assembly was identical to the 20 or so intake assemblies I have provided to others on this board in the past 18 months.

    For anyone purchasing an intake manifold assembly from either of these two sources, or from any other source, you will need a kit of parts to convert the marine manifold to properly function in your truck.

    I now have several of these kits available.

    With these kits, you will need a floor standing drill press, soldering iron, electrical connector crimper, and a tap wrench.

    You will have to modify the lower cast iron manifold half by drilling and taping the missing temperature sensor threaded hole in the thermostat area so you can reuse and install your stock truck water temperature sensor in the stock location. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.

    You will have to drill and tap a second hole lower on the manifold for the installation of a 3/8" NPT x 5/8" brass hose barb for the water pump bypass (45 degree "goose neck"). The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.

    You will have to finish 'dress' the thermostat bowl area where your reused stock thermostat will seat in the closed position. These surfaces were rough and in the "as-cast" condition and needed finishing for proper automotive thermostat sealing. The kit includes a 3M Type-R back up pad with the proper Roloc System abrasive pad to preform this surface dressing on your drill press.

    You will have to drill and tap into the aluminum marine manifold upper half for the necessary fitting for your power brake vacuum source, the EVAP plumbing (if you choose to retain it) and crankcase ventilation plumbing, and the like. Simply look at your stock truck manifold you remove and copy it. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap to properly size and locate these holes.

    If you are modifying a used marine intake manifold, the balance of the work on the lower manifold includes using a bottoming tap to chase the 6 mm threads on the thermostat cover mounting holes, the 1/2 NPT threads for the heater hose "quick disconnect" connection, and the 1/2 NPT EGR pipe threads too. These are common tap sizes which you will have to provide yourself.

    This work will not be necessary on a new marine intake manifold.

    I will also include the wiring harness components necessary to fabricate your own injector harness for the external fuel injectors, and properly splice this into your existing truck engine harness. This will include the correct wire gage with automotive grade insulation, and correct color coding to match up with your truck, and the EV1 (Jetronic) injector connectors that are by far the most common. If you are going to size and acquire your own fuel injectors, you will want to use these connectors as the EV1 injectors are the most common and least expensive. If you intend to use the included marine injectors as "Hog" has done, you will need the newer, and more expensive EV6 injector connectors. I have these as well, but will be an additional cost. The stock truck spider injector is rated at 19 lbs/hr at the industry standardized 43.5 fuel psi. The EV6 injectors used on these marine manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and use the EV6 electrical connector like the newer LS2 and LS7 GM motors, the Cadillac Northstar engines used in the Corvette based XLR, and most Ford Cobra and Chrysler performance engines since about 1996.

    The marine fuel injectors on the used manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and likely had fuel in them when taken out of service so cleaning and rebuilding of the injectors may be necessary if you want to use them. You can likely price this cleaning and rebuilding service out locally for about $10-12/injector.

    The fuel injectors on the new manifold are the same 24 lb injectors, and are new. No cleaning will be necessary.

    I will also include a engine harness wiring diagram for your use when fabricating your own external injector wiring harness. I will also include non-insulated butt crimp connectors, a tube of automotive grade silicone seal (RTV), and heat shrink tubing so you can make automotive grade wire harness splice connections to your engine wire harness. To do this, remember this sequence; "crimp, solder, seal". You first need to crimp the mon-insulated butt connector to fasten the two ends of the butt splice together to provide the mechanical (strength) connection of the two wires being spliced. You follow this up by soldering the non-insulated butt connector to provide a positive electrical connection between the two wire ends. "Wet" the connector with the hot solder to assure solder flows inside the butt connector thoroughly. Once the solder is cool, then coat the soldered connection with silicone seal (RTV), and while the RTV is still wet, slide heat shrink tubing over the joint and heat the tubing to shrink it down onto the wet RTV. If you have used enough RTV, some will squeeze out of the ends of the heat shrink as it shrinks down onto the wire. This is what you want. Once you have heat shrunk all 16 splices, then let all 16 wires sit undisturbed overnight so the RTV silicone seal fully cures without any voids or air pockets. Following this procedure of crimp, solder, seal will produce a strong, permanent, and weather tight engine harness wire splice. This is how GM does it on their own engine wire harnesses. The only difference is GM uses a UV light curing silicone to speed up the curing cycle.

    I will also include a stainless steel bracket to clamp the stock truck MAP sensor down to the aluminum manifold top half. The stock truck manifold uses molded-in clips in the plastic upper manifold half to hold the MAP sensor in place. Using the stainless steel bracket I will provide and a Viton 'O' ring will allow the stock truck MAP sensor to mount and seal to the slightly larger sensor hole bore found on the marine manifold, to keep you from needing to purchase a new MAP sensor when your OEM truck sensor is likely functioning just fine as it is. I will include two slightly different sized "O" rings. Use the larger "O" ring if possible to get the tightest manifold seal. If this "O" ring is too tight, the second "O" ring is one size smaller. One or the other will work.

    I will also include some additional fresh stainless steel and plastic hardware parts that you likely need to use when you tear down these used assemblies for cleaning and preparing for your installation into your truck. These include a new schrader valve core and dust cap for the fuel rail. You will need to reuse your stock truck throttle body. However, the gasket for the truck throttle body is integral to the plastic upper truck manifold. Because of this, I will also include a Felpro gasket James B. sourced so you can properly seal the truck throttle body on the marine manifold.

    I will also include the necessary fittings to cap off your EGR valve plumbing both on the intake manifold and on the drivers side exhaust manifold. If you want to retain this function, you will have to use a divorced EGR valve set-up from a 1999 - 2003 Gen III truck or similar. You will have to source these components yourself. Others on the board are working to come up with the set of parts and locations to make this work. James B and Stealth97 seem to have taken the lead on this one. Same with the EVAP plumbing. If you do not wish to retain the EGR function, you will need to reprogram your PCM to remove this function to keep from getting error messages. You can have this done easily by most any programmer at the same time you make the necessary changes in your fuel map for the larger injectors.

    You will have to source or make your own fuel lines, two of them. One for fuel delivery, the other for the fuel return back to the tank. Both of these fuel lines are of similar diameter (3/8 supply, 5/16 return), construction (3/8 and 5/16 "quick" connections to fuel rail, 16mm and 14mm male "Saganaw"* fittings to the hard fuel lines on the fire wall), and design (brazed steel, not machined aluminum) as those used on the 1997-98 Corvette, Camaro, and Firebird, just a shorter overall length.

    *NOTE - "Saganaw" refers to these being the same 16mm and 14mm male threaded "O" ring fittings used on metric GM power steering hoses since the early 1980's.

    You can source these locally either new or at a automotive recycler (bone yard) and coil up the extra length, or have these longer fuel lines shortened at most any hydraulic hose repair facility that services hydraulic systems used on things like fork lifts, snow plows, garbage trucks, bobcat (skid steer) loaders, delivery trucks with rear lift gates, farm tractors, power steering, and other vehicles and industrial applications that utilize hydraulic hoses.

    GM fuel line part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies -

    Front Flexible Fuel Line, Supply Side; GM PN 10258441; $15.38
    Rail Kit/Parts for Return Fuel Line; GM PN 17113095; $20.52

    You can also fabricate fuel lines from a "kit" sold by Pure Choice for LS1 motors installed in non-LS1 vehicles. This is a more expensive solution, but a good looking one.

    Here is a link - http://www.performanceplumbing.com/FuelLineKits.html.

    This kit comes with 24" stainless steel braided lines that will need to be shortened to length. This kit is $130. I believe Earls has a similar kit for $100, but I do not have information on it. These kits are pricey, and for the few inches of fuel line you will need, I recommend taking a set of OEM LS1 fuel lines to a hydraulic hose repair shop local to you to shorten to length. This can he done at much less cost to you.

    By the way, the fuel pressure regulator is located externally on the stainless steel marine fuel rail and is the same regulator as that used on the 97-98 Corvette and F body motors that also have the regulator at the motor. This external marine/corvette/earlyLS1 fuel pressure regulator (FPR) produces the same 58.8 psi (4 bar) fuel pressure as a stock truck regulator, so the rest of your truck fuel delivery system including the in-tank fuel pump will not know the difference. In 1999, GM changed the Corvette and F bodies to a single fuel line intake manifold fuel rail that uses a fuel pressure regulator near the fuel tank, a very different fuel delivery design. LS1's began showing up in truck applications started in 1999. Truck based LS1 motors have always had the single fuel line fuel delivery system.

    GM fuel pressure regulator part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies - You may want/need to replace the fuel pressure regulator when using a used manifold -

    Pressure Regulator; GM PN 17091947; $34.49
    Pressure Regulator Vacuum Hose; GM PN 10216948; $2.27

    You will need to supply your own manifold to cylinder head gaskets.

    You will also need to mount your stock ignition coil differently. "RCFast" has pictures of his solution posted.

    You will also need to slightly modify your throttle body linkage to retain the cruise control function, or use a 1" throttle body spacer to gain some clearance. Both approaches have been used successfully, one by "RCFast", the other by "HOG". Pictures of both solutions are posted.

    http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317

    Kit cost is $275 plus shipping.

    I am likely forgetting something. Send me a Private Message (PM) if questions.
    11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 1111111111111

    If you want a Mercruiser Tunnel ram intake, those are available as well. Not as drop in as the cross ram marine intake is, but will breath better at high rpm.

    Lower tunnel ram and fuel rails

    http://www.dougrussell.com/partscata...,22,14,2,1,5,4

    Upper plenum and t-body.
    http://www.dougrussell.com/partscata...,22,14,2,1,5,4


    Here is another option, theEdelbrock Victor Vortec intake
    http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewto...ght=tunnel+ram

    here is theHolley Stealth Ram
    http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewto...ght=tunnel+ram

    And then there is theRamjet intake manifold. This link has a Ramjet 350 intake manifold, twin turbo install and the 411 PCM conversion that uses a 2001-2002 Vortce 350 Van calibration file to run it all and have teh abilirty to rev over the 96-00 blackbox PCMs 5800 rpm hard revlimit.

    Pretty much if you have emissions testing esp. visual testing, the marine cross ram intake (this 1 http://www.sfatek.com/images/efi.jpg) is the easiest install and has passed e-testing)

    Boosted Z71 is also running this same intake as myself.

    peace
    Pauly
    Last edited by Pauly; 10-23-2007 at 10:48 AM.
    JaredPuk likes this.
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

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    Tbi-MAX
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    darn Pauly.. thats alot to absorb right there... good info...

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    Registered User ssmw183z's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    what is involved in the 411 pcm conversion on a 96-98 chevy truck with the 5.7L vortec 350? thanks guys for all the info

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    Ruggedly Handsome ShortWideVortec's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    I think thats the longest post i've ever seen
    1997 RCSB 5.7
    - 17" Boyd Coddington Blasters
    -2/4 Belltech
    -Pacesetter Longtubes
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Damn pauly u deserve a beer(or two or three... dozen) for all that info. thats by far the longest post ive ever seen!

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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmw183z
    what is involved in the 411 pcm conversion on a 96-98 chevy truck with the 5.7L vortec 350? thanks guys for all the info
    Repin the 4 32 pin PCM connectors to the 411's 2 80 pin connectors, install a 2001-2002 L31 Van calibration file into PCM (GM dealership can do this or anyone with Tunercats, JET DSM or EFILive or HPTuners, start it up and away you go. After the wiring, its really easy.


    All teh 411 swap info is in this link which i posted above.

    http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3240

    Thanks for teh props guys.

    peace
    Pauly
    Last edited by Pauly; 10-24-2007 at 10:27 AM.
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

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    hold my beer & watch this 91chevZ71's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    geez pauly, do you know anything about gm or what?
    right on
    91 K1500 ECSB
    LQ4/80E/241/60/14SF/4.88/38
    98 2Dr Tahoe
    L31/0411

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    sparkin it up FUNKBLASTER's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    Repin the 4 32 pin PCM connectors to the 411's 2 80 pin connectors
    Hey pauly how is this done? And the link has a confusing description of what happened. Would we need to do all the stuff with the A/C wiring and speedo wiring?
    Also does anyone know where to get this 411 pcm from? Sounds like a good swap. Thanks

    Jason
    98 Z71 ECSB 5.7,FIPK, Dynomax Bullet,HPPIII and 295/70 Cooper MT's w/17X8 Black escalade wheels. GM Spider Injector Upgrade.

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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by FUNKBLASTER
    Hey pauly how is this done? And the link has a confusing description of what happened. Would we need to do all the stuff with the A/C wiring and speedo wiring?
    Also does anyone know where to get this 411 pcm from? Sounds like a good swap. Thanks

    Jason
    You physically push the pins out of the older black box PCM connectors and slide them into the newer silver 411 PCM's dual 80 pin connectors.

    You need the 1996-97 or 1998-2000 truck PCM pinout diagrams and the 2001-2002 Vortec 350 Express van diagrams.

    There is a spreadsheet that tells you what pin from the old PCM goes into what position of the newer 80 pin connectors.

    If you want your speedo and AC to work, you will need to complete all aspects of the PCM swap. It isnt that difficult.

    You need to join the Pacific Performance Engineering truck forum as all the swap folks are there.
    http://www.pacificp.com/forum/index.php

    You can get the PCM used from any auto recycling place(auto wreckers). New they are around $100, used from $20-$80.

    peace
    Pauly(Hog)
    97 GMC 2wd RCSB 5.7, s10 2700 footstall, Hooker 24621hkr LT's , 2.5" cats dual 4"pipes exit B4 pass. side tire, custom driveshaft 3.42 G80 FIPK MAF descreen GM/Mercruiser Marine intake manifold 29lb LS2(EV6) injectors Ed Wright PCM(best mod), LT4 KM 14.8@94mph 2.007 4000lbs 122mph

  17. #17
    Australian Chevy
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    The 0411 swap is one of the easiest and best mod's available.
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.

    98 K1500 Suburban, 4L80E, Whipple SC, Marine Intake, Hydroboost, LS1 0411 PCM.

  18. #18
    Registered User ssmw183z's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    why does the factory comp on these 96-98 vortec trucks need to be swapped for the 411 comp??? what performance gains will occur also??? thanks every1

  19. #19
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    One good reason is the availability of tuning and scanning software.
    The 96-98 PCM's are basically the red headed stepchild of PCM's. No one wants anything to do with them!
    Also, the 0411 has alot more functions and processes at twice the speed of the black box.
    It also gives you two available outputs for running dual speed fans and gives you the opportunity to run a switch for 'valet mode'(you can set max speed and RPM's at the flick of a switch so service people can't thrash your vehicle...or you could use it as a kill switch for anti-theft purposes).
    Howard

    YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
    MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
    DUCT TAPE.

    98 K1500 Suburban, 4L80E, Whipple SC, Marine Intake, Hydroboost, LS1 0411 PCM.

  20. #20
    Wuuuazuuup!!! Kruznlow's Avatar
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    Re: 97 vortec 350 holley stealth ram conversion

    thats good to hear, seems simple enough to do for my project.. thanks for breaking that down!

    "Lifes all bout making mistakes, It's how you learn from them that counts"

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