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350 vortec vs. carbed 454

This is a discussion on 350 vortec vs. carbed 454 within the Performance forums, part of the General Discussion category; this has been fun to watch...

  1. #41
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454


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    this has been fun to watch

  2. #42
    Registered User whitelightnin92's Avatar
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    in the end its who ever puts down the most torque. put em on a dyno or have a drag race under load. ive seen some gassers that would pull as well as alot of diesels

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  3. #43
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    I'd try to steer clear of a carbed anything, especially in a computer dependant truck like most of ours.

  4. #44
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    I can't beleive some of these posts. You have to wonder, have any of these people actually ever driven either type of truck and towed anything. I guess that 26' van equpped C5500 with a 454 Vortec in it would have been much better suited and pulled better with a 350 that I was driving. Makes sense, smaller engine, less headflow..........Oh but that wasn't carbed, that must make all the difference. Sad to say it, but there is no replacement for displacement. BBC will handle the load at the very least in a better fashion. There is a reason the first BBC back in 1958 was invented to begin with. It was used in Chevrolet's heavy truck line because the 283 wasn't capable. 51 years later little has changed. I guess all the 8.1L equipped trucks out there should toss their inept big block for a vortec 350.

    P.S. Oh wait, I am sure to get flamed as I am posting on howthe350vortecisgodsgifttosmallblocks.com

    Get real.

    P.P.S. Yes based on all past experiences with them I truly have absolutely no use for any Vortec 350 out there in it's factory form.

    No I don't want your stories of why your 350 vortecs are better than anything I have or ever have had either. It's my opinion and only that, deal with it. Mind you the whole big block versus small block is a simple matter of leverage and physics.........
    Last edited by Badass69; 01-03-2009 at 11:21 AM.
    JUST FOR CLARIFICATION

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  5. #45
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by bdiamond
    I'd try to steer clear of a carbed anything, especially in a computer dependant truck like most of ours.
    Whats up with all the carb bashin on these forums? Did someone brain wash you guys into thinkin that if you put a carb on you lose 100 horse?
    1990 k1500 Silverado Z71, Built TH 350, 3" Body Lift, 33x12.50x15, 383 Stroker, 6" Rods, KB Pistons, MSD, Holley 750 Carb,Vic Jr Intake 2800 Stall Torque Converter,NOS Cheater System, 20 Gal Fuel Cell, Voodoo Cam

  6. #46
    02GMCtruck 88GMCtruck's Avatar
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    All that i know is that I can pull a 9000# trailer quicker, faster, farther and get better fuel mileage in my BMX bike than I can in my :fsc:








    this discussion is pointless.


    Edit:

    And I have actually driven a 79 Silverado with a carbed 350, a 79 Sivlerado with a carbed 454, a 93 Sierra with a TBI 454, my 88 with a TBI 350, and a 98 silverado with a Vortec 350. All trucks had 3.73s and were in good shape and hands down the carbed 454 was the best puller, followed by the TBI 454 and the rest of the 350s fell in line. Can you make a SBC powerful? Yes. Can it pull a load? yes. Can a 454 be a pig? Yes. Generally the 454 was built for pulling heavy stuff just as diesels are today. Most BBC were designed for torque and raw power, not mileage.
    Last edited by 88GMCtruck; 01-03-2009 at 11:48 AM.
    Dave



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  7. #47
    Supporting Gold Member GreaseDog's Avatar
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by papa_smurf49319
    Whats up with all the carb bashin on these forums? Did someone brain wash you guys into thinkin that if you put a carb on you lose 100 horse?
    no, nobody brainwashed us. we've just figured out that the "stupid wires" under the hood can make power, be tunable, and isnt really that hard to figure out, so we dont need to dumb it down and put a carb on it.
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by papa_smurf49319
    Whats up with all the carb bashin on these forums? Did someone brain wash you guys into thinkin that if you put a carb on you lose 100 horse?
    Because in a lot of places its illegal to do so.
    Plus why would you step backwards?

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  9. #49
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by 88GMCtruck
    Can you make a SBC powerful? Yes. Can it pull a load? yes. Can a 454 be a pig? Yes. Generally the 454 was built for pulling heavy stuff just as diesels are today. Most BBC were designed for torque and raw power, not mileage.

    After reading most of this thread, this statement seems to make the most sense to me
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by Badass69
    I can't beleive some of these posts. You have to wonder, have any of these people actually ever driven either type of truck and towed anything. I guess that 26' van equpped C5500 with a 454 Vortec in it would have been much better suited and pulled better with a 350 that I was driving. Makes sense, smaller engine, less headflow..........Oh but that wasn't carbed, that must make all the difference. Sad to say it, but there is no replacement for displacement. BBC will handle the load at the very least in a better fashion. There is a reason the first BBC back in 1958 was invented to begin with. It was used in Chevrolet's heavy truck line because the 283 wasn't capable. 51 years later little has changed. I guess all the 8.1L equipped trucks out there should toss their inept big block for a vortec 350.

    P.S. Oh wait, I am sure to get flamed as I am posting on howthe350vortecisgodsgifttosmallblocks.com

    Get real.

    P.P.S. Yes based on all past experiences with them I truly have absolutely no use for any Vortec 350 out there in it's factory form.

    No I don't want your stories of why your 350 vortecs are better than anything I have or ever have had either. It's my opinion and only that, deal with it. Mind you the whole big block versus small block is a simple matter of leverage and physics.........
    I have absolutely no use for a stock carbed 454 BBC either. 235 HP and 385 ft/lbs @ 1,600. When you are trying to accelerate while towing, you will be well above the peak torque RPM and the small block WILL out accelerate the big block. I have towed with both, the Vortec 350 will outpull a carbed 454 with ease, once rolling. The Vortec 350 will outpull a stock TBI 454 as well. The 8.0 V10 that I had in my 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 would easily outpull both and romp a Vortec 454. Cubic inches are not all it comes down to. If I can put more torque to the wheels over a broader rpm range with a small block, it will pull better.
    1997 G1500 Cobra Conversion, 5.7, 4L80E, 3.73 14-bolt 9.5", L31 Marine Intake, CFM TB, 02 MAF, 0411, Custom cam. Doug Thorley Tri-Ys, full exhaust soon.

  11. #51
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast305
    I have absolutely no use for a stock carbed 454 BBC either. 235 HP and 385 ft/lbs @ 1,600. When you are trying to accelerate while towing, you will be well above the peak torque RPM and the small block WILL out accelerate the big block. I have towed with both, the Vortec 350 will outpull a carbed 454 with ease, once rolling. The Vortec 350 will outpull a stock TBI 454 as well. The 8.0 V10 that I had in my 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 would easily outpull both and romp a Vortec 454. Cubic inches are not all it comes down to. If I can put more torque to the wheels over a broader rpm range with a small block, it will pull better.

    EXACTLY. That statment is the end of this thread, or should be.

  12. #52
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by the_husk
    EXACTLY. That statment is the end of this thread, or should be.
    To further improve on the small block statement. I pulled a 26 ft long pontoon boat behind my G20 Van on New Years Day. Pulled it 100 miles away. I have 3.08 gears mind you. I pulled the boat at 60 mph with the transmission in Drive. That means I pulled it in OD with the TCC locked, it only kicked down into 3rd on a couple of back roads grades and easily handled everything on the interstate in OD. For any of you that question how big a pontoon boat and trailer is, the railing for the boat actually hangs about 1 ft higher than the top of a fullsize van. Its big and heavy. This one happens to have a 3.0 I4 Mercruiser stern drive in it. So the boat is probably 5K with trailer and gear.
    1997 G1500 Cobra Conversion, 5.7, 4L80E, 3.73 14-bolt 9.5", L31 Marine Intake, CFM TB, 02 MAF, 0411, Custom cam. Doug Thorley Tri-Ys, full exhaust soon.

  13. #53
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast305
    I know how the older BBC ran stock and I know how the 5.7 runs stock. The Vortec 5.7/4L80E is a much more flexible powertrain than the 7.4/TH400. Puts more power to the wheels over a broader RPM range. This means it will pull better over the vast majority of conditions..
    This goes against every arguement you ever had where you stated that the 350 puts all its torque down low, and that is why it is superior to the 5.3/6.0 because it makes its power across the rpm band. I just dont get it, you have to always be right. Pulling a load, the big block would handle it alot better than a smallblock, unless one is built up better than the other.

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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlawz2004
    This goes against every arguement you ever had where you stated that the 350 puts all its torque down low, and that is why it is superior to the 5.3/6.0 because it makes its power across the rpm band. I just dont get it, you have to always be right. Pulling a load, the big block would handle it alot better than a smallblock, unless one is built up better than the other.
    Dude, you seriously need to re-read the post I have made and look at the torque curve of a carbed big block. They barely achieve the stock rating of 385 ft/lbs and are under 300 ft/lbs before they crest 3,000 rpm. The HP peak is well before 4,000 rpm, 3,600 rpm IIRC. The 350 does make stronger low-end torque than the 5.3/6.0, BUT it also pulls across the whole RPM band better than the Carbed 454 does. Big block can tug the load better at slow speeds, but as the engine speeds increase, the sluggish breathing big block quickly makes its lack of power apparant. Thats why I loved my V10 dodge though, more torque than a big block and more HP than anything else back in 94. 450 TQ @ 2,800 and 300 HP @ 4,400 with 3.92 gears it would move anything.
    1997 G1500 Cobra Conversion, 5.7, 4L80E, 3.73 14-bolt 9.5", L31 Marine Intake, CFM TB, 02 MAF, 0411, Custom cam. Doug Thorley Tri-Ys, full exhaust soon.

  15. #55
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast305
    I have absolutely no use for a stock carbed 454 BBC either. 235 HP and 385 ft/lbs @ 1,600. When you are trying to accelerate while towing, you will be well above the peak torque RPM and the small block WILL out accelerate the big block.
    well above peak torque? i cant think of a time where i've pulled above 2500. where exactly is the peak torque of the 350 in question? as i said before, apples to apples, the ONLY variable being the engine size, the 454 will TOW the load better. nobody said anything about accelerating, daily driving, racing, or back to back pulls.
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseDog
    well above peak torque? i cant think of a time where i've pulled above 2500. where exactly is the peak torque of the 350 in question? as i said before, apples to apples, the ONLY variable being the engine size, the 454 will TOW the load better. nobody said anything about accelerating, daily driving, racing, or back to back pulls.
    Considering I pull into the rocky mountains and not flat land, it stands to reason that you are going to have times where the engine is turning 4,000 rpm for miles at a time. Just a notion. In the mountains the 454s lack of HP becomes apparant.
    1997 G1500 Cobra Conversion, 5.7, 4L80E, 3.73 14-bolt 9.5", L31 Marine Intake, CFM TB, 02 MAF, 0411, Custom cam. Doug Thorley Tri-Ys, full exhaust soon.

  17. #57
    Supporting Gold Member GreaseDog's Avatar
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    you're off your rocker man. HP doesnt get you up the hill, torque does. and the 454 has more of it. /thread
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
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  18. #58
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseDog
    you're off your rocker man. HP doesnt get you up the hill, torque does. and the 454 has more of it. /thread
    The 454 has more peak torque but a very limited powerband, VERY limited. The head ports are tiny as is the cam. The 350 is able to carry its torque 2,000 rpm or more higher in the RPM range. Sorry dude, 350 vortec will outpull a carb 454 under some situations .

    Here I will lay it out for you on how a Vortec 350 can and will outpull a 454.

    Vortec 350
    RPM------HP-----TQ
    500-----23.8---250
    1,000---52.3---275
    1,500---82.9---290
    2,000--114.3---300
    2,500--154.8---325
    3,000--188.6---330
    3,500--213.3---320
    4,000--236.2---310
    4,500--257.1---300
    5,000--257.1---270
    5,500--251.4---240

    2,000-4,500 AVG
    HP---194.05
    TQ---314.16

    Carb 454

    RPM-----HP----TQ
    500----28.6---300
    1,000--64.8---340
    1,500--110.0--385
    2,000--137.1--360
    2,500--166.2--350
    3,000--191.4--330
    3,500--209.9--315
    4,000--228.6--300
    4,500--231.4--270
    5,000--219.1--230
    5,500--209.5--200

    2,000-4,500 AVG
    HP---194.1
    TQ---320.8

    See how strikingly similar the actual useable output of the two engines are under towing situations. Keep in mind the small block will pull another 1,000 rpm easily on the big block, which means it will be able to stay in the torque multiplying lower gears, longer under hard acceleration and take advantage of being able to put more torque to the drive wheels longer, to a higher rpm. Big engines aren't everything.
    Last edited by Fast305; 01-04-2009 at 10:55 PM.

  19. #59
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    Fast is right. Its the same reason an LT1 Vette will out accelerate an L98 Vette,even though the L98 makes more peak torque.

    WOT accelaration is directly comparable to WOT pulling ability.

    Maybe the arguement is pulling a load lazily down a flat road, or pulling at WOT up a grade?

    Those carb 454's in the early 80's trucks are dogs at best. I used to beat them with stock TPI longblock 305 with a Quadrajet in my 84 GMC longbox.

    peace
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  20. #60
    Supporting Gold Member GreaseDog's Avatar
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    Re: 350 vortec vs. carbed 454

    i cant recall a time that has ever required me to open the secondaries, other than coming back from Big Rapids with my K30 dually on the trailer behind an F150 with a 5.4.
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
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