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96-99 454 Vortec owners?

This is a discussion on 96-99 454 Vortec owners? within the Technical / Maintenance forums, part of the General Discussion category; Is there enough material to redrill to mount the other backing plate? Maybe look at the Dodge trucks that had ...

  1. #8341
    Registered User N0DIH's Avatar
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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?


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    Is there enough material to redrill to mount the other backing plate? Maybe look at the Dodge trucks that had the 10.5" axle (can't remember where I read that, Dodge used them for a while)

    Quote Originally Posted by PonyKiller87 View Post
    All the stuff you guys are bringing up is why I eventually decided to just swap the whole rear axle. I didn't want to go through all the trouble to have a rear disc brake that wasn't that strong and used parts that were hard to get ahold of.

    The newer 10.5 14 bolt rears (01 and newer) like I used have a completely different axle flange at the end of the tube so theres pretty much no way to swap the parts onto your stock axle.

    I don't have a ton of pictures of the rear, check out this page on my site. http://www.vortec454.com/index_files/Page1029.htm

    And for reference those are dual piston rear calipers with the drum type ebrake. The pads in those calipers are larger than the pads in your stock front calipers. But being that I swapped the fronts too it all matches well now.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Oh, I still haven't hooked up my ebrake yet. I have the cables from the rear end, and the cables coming down from the pedal, I just need to rig something up for the middle where it all comes together.
    Kevin
    99 Chevy K3500 RCLB Pickup L29 Vortec 454/4L80E Mods: HM CAI, Billit dist, Dyna Mod, Screamin Demon Coil, LiveWires, NGK plugs @.045. LS6 Injectors, EGR Deleted. True Dual Exhaust w/ Xpipe 3" SS No Cats/Muffs. HPT
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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Is there enough material to redrill to mount the other backing plate? Maybe look at the Dodge trucks that had the 10.5" axle (can't remember where I read that, Dodge used them for a while)
    I don't think so, and the end of the axle sit out of the tube a different amount because the backing plates mount differently.
    Kevin
    99 Chevy K3500 RCLB Pickup L29 Vortec 454/4L80E Mods: HM CAI, Billit dist, Dyna Mod, Screamin Demon Coil, LiveWires, NGK plugs @.045. LS6 Injectors, EGR Deleted. True Dual Exhaust w/ Xpipe 3" SS No Cats/Muffs. HPT
    www.Vortec454.com
    Loud Pipes make people smile!

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Thanks Kevin.. you wouldn't have any bigger ones of the area around the flange and backing plate would you?

    I get what you're saying about the rear end swap but unfortunately it's just not an option for me. I may be able to find a late model truck over here that's been wrecked and just get the brakes off the rear. The whole rear end is worth a small fortune. The other option is the caddy calipers that a lot of people do use, but I just don't like having stuff that I know I can't get spares for at all.. plus the deal with the e-brake going out of adjustment if not used regularly gets me. If there's one thing I hate messing with it's e-brakes. Too many C3 Vettes.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    If I get a chance I will get out and take some pictures of the finished swap in the truck and some closeups of some of the parts. Been meaning to do it for a while now, just always something else going on.
    Kevin
    99 Chevy K3500 RCLB Pickup L29 Vortec 454/4L80E Mods: HM CAI, Billit dist, Dyna Mod, Screamin Demon Coil, LiveWires, NGK plugs @.045. LS6 Injectors, EGR Deleted. True Dual Exhaust w/ Xpipe 3" SS No Cats/Muffs. HPT
    www.Vortec454.com
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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dex540 View Post
    GM had a TSB on the Suburban about premature front pad wear. They offered a revised rear shoe and brake valve.
    Got any more info on this brake valve? I'm still trying to figure out if I have any options to change the proprotioning to the rear now that I have discs.
    Kevin
    99 Chevy K3500 RCLB Pickup L29 Vortec 454/4L80E Mods: HM CAI, Billit dist, Dyna Mod, Screamin Demon Coil, LiveWires, NGK plugs @.045. LS6 Injectors, EGR Deleted. True Dual Exhaust w/ Xpipe 3" SS No Cats/Muffs. HPT
    www.Vortec454.com
    Loud Pipes make people smile!

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Dex540, just wanted to say thanks for the parts info/write up on your conversion. You might want to edit your post to mention that it works on the 10.5" axle with your style of drums only, so that when folks search in the future they'll have that info right there with the parts list.

    My truck has the slip on drums (bigger axle) so it won't work for me. Just guessing here, but you probably had the 2.5" wide shoes right? Some of the SRW trucks had that. Some, like mine, got the bigger axle/brakes from the dually, without the extended wheel studs for running duals. If I ever take the box off and install a flatbed it'd be easy for me to run duals, just look a bit funny with the normal wheels up front.

    -------
    Today my truck is gonna get a workout. We're going camping (hopefully) again: camper in the box, horse trailer hitched behind and headed for about 8000' in the mountains. When we get back I'll let you guys know how the t-case works out!
    '98 K3500 7.4Vortec/4L80E, airbags, Bosch injector upgrade, Magnaflow exhaust, custom tuned by me!

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Stake on drums? I seem to remember something on these when I was digging around for drum sizes once. But can't recall why GM did it over the slide ons.

    I have a OEM set (used, never rebuilt) of the 76-78 Eldo calipers and Eldo backing plates I pulled from a 77 Eldo in the junkyard back in 84 or so.

    Once I get another vehicle I can look at what I can do, then I can take my drums and hubs off and see what is up.

    The 76-78 Eldo/Fleetwood calipers are essentially front calipers with the parking brake. The problem is if you don't use the parking brake, it would seize up, so GM had a lot of issues, mainly because it wasn't used and when needed to be used was frozen up. The parking brake also self adjusts the rear brakes, which is needed, where fronts adjust everytime you press on the brakes.
    Tom I am making plans for a trip up. I will rent out a Dyno shop and tune a few cars and trucks. I did a GMT-400 to GMT-800 conversion for John a few years back. Maybe I can get the truck and have you look it over when I am up.
    Last edited by CalEditor; 07-27-2011 at 09:06 AM.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Yup, that is the same axle as I have, the 10.5" 14FF with slip on 13x3.5" drums/shoes. Dex, is yours a 14 Bolt 9.5"? I have a friend with a 96 K2500 SCLB (350 and 4.10's), so I have seen it. He is selling his truck soon, if anyone needs a plow truck/work truck. It has been used as a plow truck for a while, so the condition shows it.



    Quote Originally Posted by skills4lou View Post
    Dex540, just wanted to say thanks for the parts info/write up on your conversion. You might want to edit your post to mention that it works on the 10.5" axle with your style of drums only, so that when folks search in the future they'll have that info right there with the parts list.

    My truck has the slip on drums (bigger axle) so it won't work for me. Just guessing here, but you probably had the 2.5" wide shoes right? Some of the SRW trucks had that. Some, like mine, got the bigger axle/brakes from the dually, without the extended wheel studs for running duals. If I ever take the box off and install a flatbed it'd be easy for me to run duals, just look a bit funny with the normal wheels up front.

    -------
    Today my truck is gonna get a workout. We're going camping (hopefully) again: camper in the box, horse trailer hitched behind and headed for about 8000' in the mountains. When we get back I'll let you guys know how the t-case works out!

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Cool, will have to plan for a day. Ideas on timeframe?

    Quote Originally Posted by CalEditor View Post
    Tom I am making plans for a trip up. I will rent out a Dyno shop and tune a few cars and trucks. I did a GMT-400 to GMT-800 conversion for John a few years back. Maybe I can get the truck and have you look it over when I am up.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    Is there enough material to redrill to mount the other backing plate? Maybe look at the Dodge trucks that had the 10.5" axle (can't remember where I read that, Dodge used them for a while)
    Dodge does use a similar axle, but it doesn't have the bolt on pinion support. Also all the Dodge axles come out of Mexico. More and more GM axles are, too. I beleive the 10.5" and 11.5" GM axles are still made here in the US, Though.
    454cid
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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    What is wrong with using a GMT-800 rear end?

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    IIRC Perches are wrong. GM was kind as to change things on us... And they changed the flanges on the ends of the tubes so we can't just bolt on the GMT800 discs....

    Quote Originally Posted by CalEditor View Post
    What is wrong with using a GMT-800 rear end?
    Last edited by N0DIH; 07-27-2011 at 01:52 PM.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    It took me less than 1 hour to cut the spring perches and the shock mounts off of both axles and weld the GMT-400 brackets and perches on to the GTM-800 axle.

    Digital protactor helps out

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Grab a slew of axles when you come up and we can have axle swapping parties...

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    I think John has a GOOD welder

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Ponykiller- GM TSB# 99-05-24-001A
    92-94 Suburban GM# 15650150 Valve Asm., Brake Comb.
    05-Newer Suburban GM# 12548265 Valve Asm., Brake Comb.
    If you are getting too much brake to the rear you can install an adjustable prop valve in the rear line, they are available through Willwood.
    NODIH / Skills4lou- I have the 10.5" FF 14 Bolt, It has 13 X 2.5" shoes. 3.73 ratio. Your friend's 350 truck probably has less than 8,600 lbs GVWR rating on the door decal. The 9.5" rear does not have full floating hubs, only semi floating. If you have a 454 and the 8,600 lbs GVWR option, you should have a full floating 10.5" 14 bolt rear (GM did some crazy things so who knows what every specific truck has). NODIH if you have those calipers you can get the rebuild kits from NAPA including the entire piston/adjuster assy, but I recall they were around $100 a side.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    His is a 8600 GVW, but I think with the lighter vehicle (SCLB) it got the 9.5FF, not a 9.5SF. I spent a lot of time under it, yes, it is a 9.5FF. I think it has the 13x2.5 brakes.

    I have a 95 Caprice Cop Car 9C1 axle with the full PBR brakes, but they are solid rotors, not the vented the 76-78 Eldo's had. I like the vented much better.

    If you can figure out something else for a parking brake, you can use front calipers if you can find the right ones to fit the backing plate.

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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH View Post
    His is a 8600 GVW, but I think with the lighter vehicle (SCLB) it got the 9.5FF, not a 9.5SF. I spent a lot of time under it, yes, it is a 9.5FF. I think it has the 13x2.5 brakes.
    There is no such thing as a 9.5FF axle........ unless maybe you're talking about a Dana 60 that is 9.75"?
    Last edited by 454cid; 07-27-2011 at 07:10 PM.
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    Re: 96-99 454 Vortec owners?

    Gm "Corporate" 9.5" rears are semi float design with c-clip axles. Axle rides on a wheel bearing pressed into the axle tube. If that rear you mentioned has a removable pinion support, it's a 10.5".

 

 

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