If you are not able to login to the forum, please Contact Us here to let us know. Thanks!

Support FSC and see no ads! - Click Here
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

This is a discussion on Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter within the Technical / Maintenance forums, part of the General Discussion category; Ok so last night leaving work I go to start my '99 OBS Z-71 and it turned over but didnt ...

  1. #1
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter


    Support FSC and see no ads! - Click Here
    Ok so last night leaving work I go to start my '99 OBS Z-71 and it turned over but didnt start right off. I then turned key again and this time it turned over and started but in doing so made alot of noise. When I got home I turned engine off and then re-started and same thing truck starts but there is an awful lot of noise when turning over only.

    So I say damn 177,000 miles and original starter must have crapped out on me so I go to the local Checkers and they ask me is my starter a Gear Reduction or a Direct Drive ?? I have know idea and working out of town I don't have the luxury of pulling it and taking into Checkers to get a match.

    I just hope it is the starter and not something like a broken tooth on the flywheel.

    Anyone out there know what which type is the most likely be in there ??


    Thanks;

    Meatstick


    '99 OBS Z-71 5.7L 177,000 miles

  2. #2
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Well I went ahead and bought the Direct Drive starter and when I got under my truck at work the Direct Drive is about twice the size of the existing one so I think its safe to say that on my vehicle at least its probably the Gear Reduction starter.



    Meatstick

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    714

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    You are right , the size is different. But, the larger size direct-drive starter has higher torque and less cost, but small gear-reduction starter has higher cost and consumes less electric power.

  4. #4
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Thanks for the info. I am going to stick with the Gear Reduction and pray like hell that the sounds I am hearing are due to the starter finally failing after 10 years. I hope something didnt come apart on the flywheel.


    Meatstick

  5. #5
    Official FSC mascot!!!!! PHATSPEED7X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    31
    Posts
    7,658

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Yeah gear reduction starters are tiny. I still have the old school big ass starter that doubles as a boat anchor.

    -1953 3100- -1991 K1500- -1999 Ford Ranger-

  6. #6
    Supporting Gold Member GreaseDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Elkhart IN
    Age
    33
    Posts
    16,167

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by JZ57_CN
    You are right , the size is different. But, the larger size direct-drive starter has higher torque and less cost, but small gear-reduction starter has higher cost and consumes less electric power.
    the whole point of the gear reduction starter is more torque through gear reduction.
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
    90 Chevy K3500 - 93 Chevy C2500 (in pieces) - 94 Chevy K1500

  7. #7
    Loves GMT400 haters someotherguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    somewhere else
    Posts
    11,099

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by JZ57_CN
    You are right , the size is different. But, the larger size direct-drive starter has higher torque and less cost, but small gear-reduction starter has higher cost and consumes less electric power.
    I'll agree on the less cost thing...but I hate them. I've balanced one too many of those heavy sumbitches on my nose or forehead while hooking up the wires (had a girlfriend with a '70 C10 that ate starters for lunch, among other old POS vehicles.) Also, with my sliced-and-diced Y-pipe for ground clearance, big starter wouldn't fit anyway. Learned this the hard way on my old '92.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreaseDog
    the whole point of the gear reduction starter is more torque through gear reduction.
    Right? Gear reduction is the bomb. The mini high torque starter used on the gas engines since around '93 or so is a 5:1 planetary gear starter. Lots of torque, less power draw. Now when they go bad it sucks, because they crank very slowly, but then it's just time to get it built and put it back on. They rock.

    Richard
    Last edited by someotherguy; 03-08-2009 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #8
    D to the MAX gr8shot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Grand Island, NE
    Age
    28
    Posts
    930

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    They're pretty sweet, but damn they're expensive!! It was $150 for the starter on my 454. Talk about a ripoff, considering how cheap the direct drive one on my 92 is.
    04 Chevy LB7 Dmax. Some go fast goodies from Husker Diesel

    SOLD!!!! 07.5 Chevy LMM Dmax DPF Deleted, EFI Live from Husker Diesel & more 448hp/834tq

    1992 Chevy 1500 ECSB 4x4 350TBI 320k miles

    '95 Chevy 2500 ECLB swapped in a 95 12v cummins, NV4500, 2wd

  9. #9
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Ok so I got the Gear Reduction starter and installed it along with a new battery since it was 3 years old and Arizona summers are hard on batteries.

    Of coarse since everything is new its turns over alot quicker. But I still have weird sounds only when starting, it sounds something like starter gear is possibly jumping tooth on flywheeel or something along that line. After engine is cranked and running no sounds at all.

    Any ideas ?

    Thanks;


    Meatstick

  10. #10
    Loves GMT400 haters someotherguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    somewhere else
    Posts
    11,099

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    You 100% sure you have the correct bolts on that starter? They're a special length for the mini starter and so far I haven't found them in the replacements that the auto parts stores sell. The ones that fit the large starter are about 1/2" too long. I've seen people try to shim them with washers, I've seen hardware store bolts, etc. in an attempt to make the wrong size bolts work. That lets the starter move around on the pad which is a really bad situation.

    When you had the starter down, did you get a good look at the bolt holes in the block? Any evidence of cracking or damage?

    Also, how do the teeth on the flywheel look?

    Richard

  11. #11
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Thanks for the reply. I am 100% positive I have the correct bolts as I used the same bolts that came out of the old one which was the original starter. The bolt holes and surrounding area showed no signs of cracking but maybe I need to take a closer look to be sure. The teeth that I could see on the flywhell all looked ok with no chips at all. If you read my original post this all started with truck turning over but not starting then I tried it again and although it start the noises were present until truck fired off.

    I think maybe I will take it to my mechanic and let him have a look, maybe it is the flywheel and I just couldnt see that particular section.

    Tanks for answering.



    Meatstick

  12. #12
    Supporting Gold Member GreaseDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Elkhart IN
    Age
    33
    Posts
    16,167

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    did you shim the starter for proper pinion gear to ring gear clearance?
    77 Chevy K20 - 80 GMC K2500 (in pieces)
    90 Chevy K3500 - 93 Chevy C2500 (in pieces) - 94 Chevy K1500

  13. #13
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Crack Alley
    Age
    46
    Posts
    68

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Yes it is shimmed properly I used feeler gauges to meausre before and after.

    What I am getting at is this noise was happening before I changed the starter not after. Something happened but I dunno what that is.



    Meatstick

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Did you ever get this figured out? I'm having the same trouble with my 1965 C-10 with a 283. I have a 168 tooth flywheel and matching starter but it makes a lot of racket.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    714

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    For your application, you only can use direct drive starter.

    I have a couple of Delco ones, if you are interesting, send me PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaTee View Post
    Did you ever get this figured out? I'm having the same trouble with my 1965 C-10 with a 283. I have a 168 tooth flywheel and matching starter but it makes a lot of racket.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2

    Re: Direct Drive vs Gear Reduction Starter

    Yes I know that. I have a remanufactured direct drive starter with new bolts and it sounds like its chewing the teeth off of the flexplate. The teeth on the flexplate are in good shape it just won't engage properly. I've played with the shims but it doesn't seem to help.

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •