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Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

This is a discussion on Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work? within the Technical / Maintenance forums, part of the General Discussion category; Hi- new here. I have a 1998 Suburban 1500 2wd. Bought it in early 2007 ($2950 195,000 miles)- it has ...

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    Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?


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    Hi- new here.
    I have a 1998 Suburban 1500 2wd.
    Bought it in early 2007 ($2950 195,000 miles)- it has 217,800 miles now- been very reliable
    I've done a fair number of parts replacement-radiator, water pump, intake manifold gaskets, belt tensioner, timing chain/gears, brake booster,bilstein shocks, antisway bar bracket, both front inside door opening handles-and stuff I've probably forgotten.

    My problem-the starter has been going bad for 2 -3 years.
    When I've driven enough to warm it up-shut it off-try to restart it- it will cranks very very slowly.
    It always starts- but I'm told this is typical of GM starters that are failing- they are sensitive to heat-and heat conducts into them from the hot motor-resistance goes up-and they are harder to start.

    Like an idiot I bought 2 YES 2 WRONG starters off ebay.Long story- but broke in debt trying to save every penny, so I sometimes take chances to get cheapest/best deal- usually works out- but sometimes not-this case- not.

    The wrong starters are TINY-and they have 11 tooth gears- my OEM starter is larger with a 9 tooth gear.
    I finally figured out that the WRONG starters have a reduction gear-my starter is direct drive.

    1)Question one- can I use the reduction geared 11 tooth in my truck? I don't have my " bad starter' at hand-so I don't know if the tooth spacing is the same?? My memory says the actual gears were about the same diameter-so the tooth spacing is WRONG- but I didn't actually measure them- yet.It would be nice to know before I pull it again if I can use the "wrong starter" Seems odd that GM would have flywheels with different tooth spacing in the same year, but who knows.
    If you look online-Autozone- it shows both types of starters for 98,99- doesn't mention that you can only use one or the
    other.

    2) If they interchange it looks like I would have to fashion some sort of extra splash cover since the smaller starter doesn't really fill the hole in the bellhousing-water grime could splash in-that correct?

    3) Where can I find a rebuild kit for my starter?? Checked ebay-online-can't find brushes-can't find ANYTHING to rebuild it.

    4)Buddy- adept GM fan mechanic-says my brushes are going bad-and it is simple to remove and replace them?? Is that correct.

    Sorry for all the questions
    Thanks
    Charlie

    PS I live outside new orleans-I drive the Suburban wife son drive the 2006 Prius-the Suburban gets great hy mpg- 21mpg on long hy trips to Flagstaff AZ. I hadn't any GMs(other than a Prism/corolla), so when I bought the Suburban it was just so we-3 adults 4 cats 2 big dogs (greyhounds) need an evacuation vehicle to get us 100 miles north in an evacuation.Gas prices were up,so Suburbans were cheap-and Huge- so I bought it.Expected it to be a worn out piece of junk that would get 14 15 mpg on hy trips 10 mpg city- but it isn't and it gets great FE- considering its utility-and comfort.
    Yeah since our finances have gone bad the Suburban has been the only piece of good luck!!

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    Charlie, best best is to find a local starter/alternator shop and have your original rebuilt. The mini starter that GM used is actually a very good starter; lasts a long time and has more power and less current draw than the larger starters. Yeah; they do start to drag when they're wearing out, but any decent shop can rebuild it for anywhere from $50 to $100 or so depending on how bad it is.

    I'd seriously caution you against trying to rig any kind of incorrect starter as the usual result IF you can get it to work is - damage to the flexplate, damage to the starter, and worst of all - damage to the block on the starter mounting pad and the starter bolt hole threads. You don't want that; trust me.

    Richard

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    Richard
    Thanks for the info.There is shop near me-don't know anything about them- but worth a shot.
    I don't expect to have any work later in the week-so I'll pull it and drop it off.

    Heck the second wrong mini starter I bought is a GENUINE LIKE NEW REMY- very low use-looks like new-says New Remy(not rebuilt on the stick on decal).Even online discount sellers want >$300 for Remy rebuilds. Such a pretty starter-I love OEM stuff for repairs- much prefer a low use used OEM to a new chinese or piece of junk rebuilt who knows where cheapo autozone part(had problems with auto zone rebuilds in past but still use them-brake booster and water pump auto zone rebuilds-working OK so far)-I frequently have to use cheapest quickest to find parts-usually works out- but not always.
    Guess I will be selling two starters-ha,ha.Yeah when I initially took my starter out-took one look at the two starters-sorta tried the "new" one on for size-Then reinstalled the old one-too obvious they were waaay different-didn't want to take the chance of eating the flywheel-I need the truck to get to work!!
    Thanks
    Charlie
    PS sure wish I could find a rebuild kit- or just brushes?Do folks not DIY rebuilds anymore? They require special tools to disassemble-looks like just a couple of bolts/ nuts?

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    So few people interested in doing any kind of rebuilding anymore, the market for rebuild parts for pretty much anything has dried up. Everything is rebuilt for you, at some sh!thole in Mexico or china, using lowest quality parts possible and cheapest practices and labor. Best latest example of that are the nearly useless rebuilt master cylinders available these days - go through half a dozen to get a good one. A/C compressors have been like this for a long time.

    Yes, 20+ years ago I used to rebuild my own wheel cylinders, calipers, master cylinders - but usually because I was working on stuff that you couldn't otherwise buy because it was too old. Kits for rebuilding stuff were real common back then. For starters and alternators, I'd always trusted local rebuild shops but those are becoming a thing of the past too.

    Richard
    Last edited by someotherguy; 12-18-2011 at 10:08 AM.

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    Richard
    Thanks for responding.
    Yep,I was really really surprised when I searched for rebuild kits- or just brushes- I found NONE for mine-and a very few for the reduction gear starters-think they-reduction gear ones GM trucks) are coded 260 something or other.
    Then searched online- nothing I could find-NAPA AUTOZONE general search- nothing

    I really hated to use the Auto Zone rebuild brake booster and water pump- but in a time bind so had no choice.

    Nowadays I try to buy a low mile OE used part- or the cheapest POS new chinese cheapo part since I suspect they are all made with lowest QC- strictly luck of the draw getting a POS or a winner.

    I had just the problem you mention with a clutch master cylinder on a 1986 Toyota truck-in about 1995
    Paid $44 got a AZ rebuild-life time warranty- lasted 3 months- returned it- installed replacement- lasted 6 weeks- returned it-installed replacement- lasted 2 months
    Finally gave up- paid $90 for Toyota OEM rebuild- lasted until I sold truck!!

    I really lucked out buying this Suburban-maybe $1100 in parts 23000 miles-no big deal
    Surprisingly good HY gas mileage-and I can get 16 mpg in city driving-wife kills my FE- gas/brake/gas/brake type driver.
    Oh well not going to get into that with her!

    Yes, this is a really owner proof type vehicle-change the oil-I used syn- change trans fluid 30,000 miles-- keep tire pressure up-don't use 100,000 mile coolant interval-and you are ok.It is even easy on tires-The Prius is a tire eater-30,000 miles and they are toast.
    Thanks
    Charlie

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    You can buy a mini starter for them.
    I have one on mine. Factory one went in 2008. Put an Auto Zone mini starter on worked for about a week, took it back tested good, put a new one on again. Lasted I think a month, put a new one on. That one has been on since. But I will add I am 99% positive the gear is the same between the two. So no your's wont' work.
    I don't know what you prefer but Craigslist can be your friend here. Along with that a side story. I take my trash to a "collection center" people throw out big stuff sometimes so it gets set to the side. I grabed a vanity (the desk type for putting on makeup and such) it was beat up, drawer was missing, parts looked like they were there. Figured I could burn it if nothing else. The drawer wasen't even broke just fallen apart. A little glue sold that for $40 on Craigslist, last month got a battery powered atv for little kids. No battery or charger, sold that for $50 today.
    I also have an end table I got for free, second was bad so it got burnt, but he marble top is fine so probably going to build another. Got a free mower needs a coil or something, if nothing else I will see if I can sell it even for $10 dollars or scrap it. I also got a big propane grill for free. Point is there is stuff out there for cheap. I know this is unrelated to your burb but... The big problem is gas money. Alot of people don't think about it. In town isn't bad but if you pickup something free and sell it, think about the gas to pick it up, and what you can sell it for? Some of them are not worth it. Also repaire cost to resell something, such as a broken mower. I also got a weedeater for free. To much oil in the gas, new gas it runs great. I kept that one, but I had to replace the head to. So for a 10 year old weedeater makes your profit go down. Just something to think about.
    Usually I don't have much problem with parts being bad, but every once in awhile.
    I think I would agree these are great trucks. They do have there problems, and like anything enough miles or age I don't care what it is, it will break.
    Sounds like you got a good one.
    I know how you feel with the whole money thing.


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    49 F-1, flathead 6, 4 speed, 2wd, unknown rear end. Old rust bucket.

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    Re: Reduction drive starter fit direct drive flywheel 9 tooth to 11 tooth ?? Work?

    kcb37
    Thanks for the info.
    On changing to a mini starter with 11 teeth when you have a 9 tooth direct drive
    I've gotten about 50/50 (on another forum or two) on whether you can just put the mini on -without chewing up flywheel.
    Once the weather improves I'm going to pull the "bad' one again-and take a really good look at the tooth spacing and the length-where it mounts relative to where I expect the little gear will end up when it it thrown out?

    My current suspicion is it will work- but 5 days ago I had them side by side-and once I saw the different gears-I DECIDED NOT TO CHANCE IT.
    So I will see-
    I find it hard to believe that GM would not make them interchangeable since they were putting them on the same model same year.
    If they chewed up flywheels-there would be lots of chewed up flywheels-heck maybe there are??

    Craigs list- Thanks for the info-Yes I use CL something like you- but mainly I buy used bicycles and window ACs-and sell them after spiffing them up a bit.
    Lately-as the economy has gotten worse- IT IS REALLY REALLY HARD to find anything cheap since there are lots of folks doing what you and me are doing!!
    The workers at our dump site grab all USEFUL LOOKING STUFF AND SELL IT!You can buy from them-but usually there is no profit in that!
    Thanks for the help-I will expend my CL looking and start checking furniture-already check garden lawn type tools
    Charlie

 

 

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