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    96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Anyone know if you can replace the intake from a 5.7 Vortec with the intake from a marine engine? I heard that people are either doing this or experimenting with this and wondered what you thought. I think that if it would work with the fuel injectors it would be better than the poppet system that I have on my 1997 Suburban now.
    Thanks,
    Ken
    Last edited by Deputydawg; 02-28-2005 at 09:50 PM.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    I have one, in the garage, it arrive 2 days ago. I got the last one of 8. I hope too be the 1st Canadian to be up running 24 lb injectors with the stock PCM.

    This would cost about $3000 for all the parts. The fuelrails alone are $800 US. I paid $725 for all of it. Dont even bother I GOT THE LAST oNE.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    I just saw that SDPC.com has a TPI base blate for Gen 1+ Vortecs heads. You'd still have to get runners, plenum, throttle body, etc. but its another possibility. I think it was about $300.
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    The marine engine intake manifold is the Holy Grail of the first gen Vortec modifications. I want to say that the guys over at S&PE have done something with one.


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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by 97Silverado
    The marine engine intake manifold is the Holy Grail of the first gen Vortec modifications. I want to say that the guys over at S&PE have done something with one.
    Yes we have. 6 of us and 1 is up and running, fueling a cammed 383 in a Tahoe with 30lb/hr high impedance injectors. This is a milestone in GEN1 vortec history. I just need to get my fuellines, which use the LS1 style quick disconnects. Ive got the 24lb injectors installed. I hope to better my 14.8 @94 2.0 60ft an radials best with my 97 rcsb, stock engine, Hooker LT's, mod.FIFK, Ed Wright tune. The manifold alone should be worth 10rwhp alone , without all of the poppet injection crap inside the runners like the factory setup does. The lower is cast iron(heavy) and the upper is aluminum. The injector rails are stainless and are OUTSIDE of the manifold. The stock composite manifold is said to rupture above 12psi of boost. The marine intake should take more.

    I should have the marine conversion finished in a couple weeks. I'm using the stock marine 24lb/hr injectors which flow around 28lb/hr at the higher Vortec fuel pressure of 50+psi.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Pauly, how much would a whole system with all parts cost about?

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by mds2004
    Pauly, how much would a whole system with all parts cost about?
    Here's all of the pieces and prices. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_...+AND+FUEL+RAIL

    Everything is there, in Canada I get away without running EGR and it is programmed out of the PCM(Ed WRight). If you need EGR you can use a divorced EGR system from a GEN III LS! LS6.

    The total is about $2700.00. U.S. list from mercruiser. Plus programming, and other odds and ends. There are only 6 people in North America that have these manifolds and are up to being the guinea pigs for everyone else. Good news is that with Tunercat software you actually CAN program for larger or smaller injectors. This has been PROVEN over at PA&A. Your best bet is to get some takeoffs from somewhere, my source has dried up indefinitly. The marine guys dont know what they are worth to us, they do now. (in my case anyway) I paid $700.00.

    The lower is cast iron and the upper is aluminum, should take much more boost than the composite stock upper intake's burst pressure of 12+ lbs of boost.

    Any more questions , fire away. abcdefgh
    Last edited by Pauly; 07-10-2005 at 08:41 AM.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    ........There are only 6 people in North America that have these manifolds and are up to being the guinea pigs for everyone else.....
    You are a few years out of date on your information. Down here on the coast, while its not a common thing it's been done before. We have one or two people asking us every week about used or new vortec marine parts. We do marine engines and these people don't own boats. What's next? Are you goning to tell us about the 6.2L GAS small block, from GM?
    Last edited by Diamond Jim; 07-10-2005 at 09:34 AM.
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Jim
    You are a few years out of date on your information. Down here on the coast, while its not a common thing it's been done before. We have one or two people asking us every week about used or new vortec marine parts. We do marine engines and these people don't own boats. What's next? Are you goning to tell us about the 6.2L GAS small block, from GM?
    OOPs, should say, 6 people have these manifolds for cheap (25%of their new list value) and for use in an on-highway L31 Vortec truck/SUV.

    A guy I know from the US, scored 8 of these manifolds in the US, he sent me one up here in Canada. He's keeping 2, sold 5 and 1 was scrap. This occured in the last year and my manifold arrived just last week.I realize that there are probably thousands of them installed in boats, but how many boat owners are going to sell over US$3000.00 of intake pieces for cheap when they need them to run THEIR boats, not many. And why would they get rid of them)the manifold) in the 1st place? The one I got came from a fleet of boats that were injected to start, but the owner and mechanic were EFI illiterate and took a step backwards and installed Vortec carb intakes instead. I cant see many people retrofitting back to a carb, so there really isnt that many to be had used. Most people that are having the stock L31 Vortec truck injection hold them back performancewise arent going to spring over 3000 US$ including tax for a new stock INTAKE MANIFOLD thats mostly cast iron, no. They are going to get an aluminum single or double plane manifold, plumb injectors, aftermarket ECU and be done. But still, they are out EGR and the STOCK appearance for a visual inspection for emissions.

    With all of these manifold's running around in pickup trucks where are they? Ive never seen one and neither has anyone else internationally I have spoken with.

    How bout some pics, thats the only concrete way to prove it.

    If this conversion is just old hash, then where's the info on the net, Ive been looking for years, not even one mention of a completion ANYWHERE on the World Wide Web.

    Seeing that the software to tune the STOCK VORTEC PCM for different sized injectors only came out 1/2 a year ago(if that), I dont see how my info is years out of date.
    Which coast are you from? There are 2 in your country, you realize.

    I'd be willing to bet money that there isnt another L31 Vortec truck in Canada that has: the marine intake, controlled by stock PCM, non-stock REAL fuel injectors, is driven on a public highway that has passed a government run emissions test.

    Why all the negativity, I'm new here, why are you making fun of me with the 6.2L poke?? I am quite a knowledgable person and am willing to help all in their quest for power and speed. Do you taunt all new members here this way, if you are this type of personality on the forum, I'll be avoiding your posts.

    I know its not a new IDEA, but the actual retrofit installation itself, is brand spanking new.

    People ask you about Vortec marine parts and they dont have boats. So what, they ask you about it, big deal. How many COMPLETE marine intake kits have you sold? And how many are up and running in a truck using the stock PCM at this moment?, esp. how many are driven on the street, right now, after passing an emissions test.

    And yes I'm going to tell you about the 6.2 L from GM, which WAS new to the hotrod guys when they first released the 400 (6.6L) SBC in 1970. Thats when hotrodders began stuffing 400 cranks into overbored 350 (4.030") blocks. Currently GM doesnt overbore the 350 to get 6.2L (383 ci) in their crate engines (HT 383, ZZ383, marine versions) like the hottrodders used to, and still do today. Instead of using a 400 spec. crank with 3.75" stroke, they just use a 3.80" stroke crank to get the extra 33 cubes, without the overbore. Then GM can still use the ZZ4 shortblock as a foundation for their 383 size.

    But you knew that right?



    thanks a lot for raining on my parade, I guess its wrong to get stoked about new projects. Perhaps envy is someone's close friend.

    Any questions feel free to ask, I still think this project will be cool, when finished.

    Good-day all

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Whaooooo! Dude get off that horse it died! Just because you donít know about things doesnít mean that it doesnít exist or hasnít been done before.

    BTW, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon to figure out which coast I am on, but it does help if you can read and comprehend, look under the aviator. Duhhhhh!

    GM does currently have and has had for a quite a while a 6.2L small block marine engine which seems to also escaped your attention. Here are some specs on it
    6.2 MPI Horizon Specifications
    HP: 320 kW: 239
    Displacement Liter/CID: 6.2/377 Cylinder/Configuration: V-8
    Bore & Stroke (in): 4.0 x 3.75 Bore & Stroke (mm): 101 x 95
    Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 Fuel System: MPI
    Full Throttle RPM Range: 4600-5000 Ignition System: ECM 555
    Alternator Amp: 65 Alternator Watt: 917
    Total Weight (lbs./kg): 940/427
    Length (in/mm): 43/1092 Width (in/mm): 30/740 Height (in/mm): 22/559

    We average about 15 or so complete replacements of small block marine vortec engines a year and even more big block engines. And when I say ďcomplete replacementĒ that is what I mean! Everything! A complete assembled engine, everything from the water pump to the bell housing/flywheel top to bottom, with marine water jacket exhaust manifolds. Unplug two wiring harnessís, remove two engine mount bolts, unplug the hoseís to the water heat exchanger, disconnect from the oil cooler, disconnect the fuel line, four tranny bolts, and replace the engine.

    People with $200k+ in their boat donít mess around with repairs, fix it now or replace everything NOW! People that fish the tournaments want an engine replaced overnight, or sooner. We will fly an engine and mechanic just about anywhere they want, when ever they want. A local mechanic starts disconnecting the engine, and when our mechanic gets there with the engine its 1Ĺ to 2 hours max before the boat is ready to fish.

    Some of these people even take extra engines with them. People with money donít like to wait, and the minor cost of a complete engine is nothing when there is $500k at stake in one tournament and a couple million for the season. Hell these people donít really worry about the money, its just the winning that matters.

    Also there are alot of boats sunk, that catch on fire, fall off trailers and other things like hurricanes. You would be surprised at what is sold through Marine Salvage and what is available..

    As far as you having the only truck like that in Canada or anywhere else is a joke? Right? Call Lyndon at Westers. He will be surprised to learn that he has only been able to program these PCM for six months. Makes you wonder what he was doing al the rest of the time.

    Besides why use a marine intake with the limited hp it can produce when you can go to a junkyard and find a vette, camoro, firebird, etc and get the entire FI setup off and produce a lot more power. BTW this is the end of our conversation.
    Last edited by Diamond Jim; 07-10-2005 at 05:45 PM.
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Jim

    BTW, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon to figure out which coast I am on, but it does help if you can read and comprehend, look under the aviator. Duhhhhh!

    It doesn't take a genius to know the difference between the words aviator and avatar either......

    This is pretty new info. In fact this post is the first time I have ever seen it mentioned. Every other article states that there are no upgrade injectors available for a GEN I Vortec.

    As far as the tuning.........Yes, the PCMs have been programmable for some time, but not for injector size.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Hey I can spell, I just can't type worth a damn.

    If you don't like the vortec FI get a LT1 system and have any machine shop mill a hole for the distributer, then you can make some real horses. The marine manifold is for high rpm, not low rpm where you drive on the street, and it's not the best for high rpm that the General makes either.

    Actually the pcm program is still the same as it always was. Its just that ther has always been a lack of injector sof different sizes and types
    Last edited by Diamond Jim; 07-10-2005 at 06:28 PM.
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Oh making fun of each other is cool and all, but I have a little information. I'm sorry if this is redundant or the topic has progressed in a different direction, but I got tired of reading, *but there is a truck in my small home town with the intake that I think you guys are referring to and I would think that it was by no means rare* (FIXED... MY BAD).
    Also there are plenty of other options as well. First is the new Stealthram for Vortec heads, but you can't get it seperate from the "kit" yet. Its ~$3000 with a 58mm tb, injectors, harness, computer etc. Then you can get S&P's GM Ramjet kit with injectors harness, TB, and GM '7730 ECM, or S&P's tall or short "RamPort" Injection deallies with the same equipment (which is actually what that truck back home has... My bad) all of those are $2200 for the kit from S&P.

    Or just get an LS1 haha, they are getting cheap now-a-days.
    Last edited by SloNlo350; 07-10-2005 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Yeah, I agree. I could install a 6.0L or LS1 cheaper than buying those injection parts.
    Still cool to see some different stuff available.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Wow this thread has really got out of hand, stuff like this is why i have cut back on posting here.

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    Trying to do thing's a l31 "could never do"

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Jim
    Whaooooo! Dude get off that horse it died! Just because you donít know about things doesnít mean that it doesnít exist or hasnít been done before.

    BTW, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon to figure out which coast I am on, but it does help if you can read and comprehend, look under the aviator. Duhhhhh!

    GM does currently have and has had for a quite a while a 6.2L small block marine engine which seems to also escaped your attention. Here are some specs on it
    6.2 MPI Horizon Specifications
    HP: 320 kW: 239
    Displacement Liter/CID: 6.2/377 Cylinder/Configuration: V-8
    Bore & Stroke (in): 4.0 x 3.75 Bore & Stroke (mm): 101 x 95
    Compression Ratio: 9.0:1 Fuel System: MPI
    Full Throttle RPM Range: 4600-5000 Ignition System: ECM 555
    Alternator Amp: 65 Alternator Watt: 917
    Total Weight (lbs./kg): 940/427
    Length (in/mm): 43/1092 Width (in/mm): 30/740 Height (in/mm): 22/559

    We average about 15 or so complete replacements of small block marine vortec engines a year and even more big block engines. And when I say ďcomplete replacementĒ that is what I mean! Everything! A complete assembled engine, everything from the water pump to the bell housing/flywheel top to bottom, with marine water jacket exhaust manifolds. Unplug two wiring harnessís, remove two engine mount bolts, unplug the hoseís to the water heat exchanger, disconnect from the oil cooler, disconnect the fuel line, four tranny bolts, and replace the engine.

    People with $200k+ in their boat donít mess around with repairs, fix it now or replace everything NOW! People that fish the tournaments want an engine replaced overnight, or sooner. We will fly an engine and mechanic just about anywhere they want, when ever they want. A local mechanic starts disconnecting the engine, and when our mechanic gets there with the engine its 1Ĺ to 2 hours max before the boat is ready to fish.

    Some of these people even take extra engines with them. People with money donít like to wait, and the minor cost of a complete engine is nothing when there is $500k at stake in one tournament and a couple million for the season. Hell these people donít really worry about the money, its just the winning that matters.

    Also there are alot of boats sunk, that catch on fire, fall off trailers and other things like hurricanes. You would be surprised at what is sold through Marine Salvage and what is available..

    As far as you having the only truck like that in Canada or anywhere else is a joke? Right? Call Lyndon at Westers. He will be surprised to learn that he has only been able to program these PCM for six months. Makes you wonder what he was doing al the rest of the time.

    Besides why use a marine intake with the limited hp it can produce when you can go to a junkyard and find a vette, camoro, firebird, etc and get the entire FI setup off and produce a lot more power. BTW this is the end of our conversation.

    I realize they make a 6.2L marine engine. I was stating that they dont overbore the 350 block any more, they just use a 3.80" crank instead of the 400 3.75" crank with the 350's 4.00 bore.

    What state is NC, my apologies, I'm not American.

    Why use the marine manifold? It can pass a visual inspection for emissions, 10x's easier than a GEN III swap, designed specifically for L31 heads, the lower is cast iron as are my heads, I want to swap injectors I couldnt with the stock intake, it flows better than the stock manifold. Why not just use the injection that I have and stay out of the junkyard thus saving my money, I dont need a GEN II LT? or GEN III/IV injection system, my GEN I-E Vortec PCM will work fine.

    As for me not knowing about it meaning it didnt happen. Sure the swap could have been done before, but whoever did it didnt tell anyone else about it. You would think someone would mention it to someone who then would have reported it online. But who knows?

    Since you have access to all of the vortec marine manifolds that these rich people wont be missing, could you please be my American supplier for my brand new marine manifold conversion business? I'll give you $50 a core, sound fair?

    Of course the fine people at Wester's can PROGRAM the PCM, and they do an excellent job, thats not the issue. Wester's has had thousands of requests for tuning on the L31 Vortec PCM's, he has probably had 100's of requests on if he can help them reprogram for difference size injectors. Since it takes an aftermarket manifold or a GM marine or ramjet manifold to be able to use changeable injectors, for reasons of cost, emissions, reliability and knowledge I cant see many if ANY other running, emission legal, road legal GM marine retrofit trucks being out there. I want pics. or testimonials from those who have, please. Westers and Fastchip can both change for injectors, but until now have had no requests due to there not being a manifold to hold them. The tunercat software now lets the injector constance to be change for injectors other than the stock 19 pounders.


    BTW

    NOW is the end of our conversation.

    Let me know about sending me those manifolds. Thanx

    I apologize to all others I have had to bother while trying to share about this project. I'll just report my findings in the future and try to not let people get under my skin so much. I was just excited that I dont have to do an engine swap or sell my truck to be able to emissions legally with stock PCM, swap my stock injectors for larger ones. Sorry.
    Last edited by Pauly; 07-11-2005 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Jim
    Hey I can spell, I just can't type worth a damn.

    If you don't like the vortec FI get a LT1 system and have any machine shop mill a hole for the distributer, then you can make some real horses. The marine manifold is for high rpm, not low rpm where you drive on the street, and it's not the best for high rpm that the General makes either.

    Actually the pcm program is still the same as it always was. Its just that ther has always been a lack of injector sof different sizes and types
    Lack of different sizes???? Thats the whole point of converting manifolds. How many smog friendly LT1 conversions out there???????

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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    I know I said I wouldn't reply, but.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    I realize they make a 6.2L marine engine. I was stating that they dont overbore the 350 block any more, they just use a 3.80" crank instead of the 400 3.75" crank with the 350's 4.00 bore.
    Actually if you had really looked at he specs, you might have noticed that they use a 3.75" stroke crank and it is not the large diameter "400" crank either. The General never overbored the block, the 400 block was cast to be a 400 block. That was how Chevy has always done it. When they increased the size of the small block bore they changed the block thickness, not overbored it. Also the 6.2L engine is the only factory engine of this size (between 350 and 400, not gen III/IV) ever offered to the public by GM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    Why use the marine manifold? It can pass a visual inspection for emissions, 10x's easier than a GEN III swap, designed specifically for L31 heads....
    Passing a visual inspection does not make it "Emission Legal". It just shows the knowledge or lack of knowledge of the person doing the inspection. This manifold and FI has not been certified anywhere for highway use according to GM. What's this Gen III swap you are talking about? Gen III and IV engines are completely different from the traditional SBC, and the parts don't interchange! This type of statement by you is what leads people to question you credibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    What state is NC, my apologies, I'm not American.
    You don't have to apoligze, unless you have done something wrong. Have you? I am not Canadian but I do know the names of the Canadian provinces, there capitals, where they are and most of the major cities, many of the medium cities, many landmarks, rivers, holidays, customs, etc. And I haven't made it a point to study Canada, it is just common everyday knowledge. So as you have no idea as to what or where NC isn't my problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    As for me not knowing about it meaning it didnt happen. Sure the swap could have been done before, but whoever did it didnt tell anyone else about it. You would think someone would mention it to someone who then would have reported it online. But who knows?
    You are the one that saying that it hasn't been discussed online before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    Since you have access to all of the vortec marine manifolds that these rich people wont be missing, could you please be my American supplier for my brand new marine manifold conversion business? I'll give you $50 a core, sound fair?
    You have to be joking, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly
    I want pics. or testimonials from those who have, please.
    Why do you think that people have to prove things to you?
    Last edited by Diamond Jim; 07-12-2005 at 08:25 AM.
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    Wow when I started this thread I had no intention on seeing two very smart guys get into a pissing contest. I thank you both for the wealth of knowledge that you bring to this forum.
    My original intention was to find out about any different ways to make my 1997 Suburban better by replacing the intake. Since my original post I recently had to replace the lower intake gasket and now have to replace the FPR and spider assembly. Unlike you guys, I have a little bit of mechanical ability and so for that I take my truck to the local dealer who has raped me. $1500 later for these repairs and I really did not get anywhere.

    You stated that you can take an LT1 intake and have it modified to fit on the 5.7 vortec? If I do this what else would need to be done and how much would you estimate for the conversion.

    Thanks.

    PS I welcome both of you to reply.
    Last edited by Deputydawg; 07-16-2005 at 05:17 PM.

  20. #20
    1972 Chevy Beauville Diamond Jim's Avatar
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    Re: 96-99 Vortec Intake Replacement with Marine

    The way to go with the LT1 on the vortec engine is to replace the heads also.

    Used LT1 aluminum heads are dirt cheap and they are a real bargain. They will give you a little more power than the vortec heads, as they run cooler and give you about a full point more compression ratio. Because they are reverse coolent flow, you have to have the extra water passages, two of them in each head, welded closed. The have two small coolent hoses drilled to match the regular water passages.

    For the intake, (to use it on your vortec with or without the LT1 heads), you need to have a hole drilled for the distributer. As the intake housing is at an angle you have to have an angled spacer made so the distributer will fit straight and be at the right height. Then you get a re-program and you will be makeing some real hp.

    You will be looking at about somewhere around 350 hp. :WTF While you got the engine apart just put the GM performance parts "Hot Cam" in it also. With the a hot tune and high test gas maybe as much as 380-390+ hp.

    The are several web sites that talk about these things.

    Edit: I almost forgot, you will have to use headers with the LT1 type exhaust flange with the LT1 heads, or get an adapter/spacer.
    Last edited by Diamond Jim; 07-16-2005 at 10:33 PM.
    Diamond Jim
    98 Burb, 5.7L, 2500LS, 4X4; 80 GMC 383, Ĺ, Long bed; 74 Dually Flatbed 350; 73 Short bed 350 4X4; 41 Chevy Master Deluxe, 327/375hp Rochester FI; 89 Fleetwood Bounder, 2 ton Chevy Chassis, 454/TH425

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