This seems to be an off limits subject for many. What I mean is there are few that know how to do it and even fewer that can do it. I'm ready to try it myself. What do I need to burn a chip? Is there a special cable that attaches to the ALDL. Is there a device that the chip is plugged into to "burn" it? I have an '88 5.7 TBI and soon changing over to the Edelbrock MPFI. I want to learn how to play with this stuff. I'm very serious about this. It kills me to know that there is something that I own and am not able to tinker with it. And if I burn s*** up, thats fine with me. Any links or direction will be appreciated.

you can go to www.TunerCat.com and order the software to manipulate
the file code. thats 69.95, next youll need a UV eraser to blank the chip.
thats $50-250. youll need some why to scan to computer to find out
how lean or rich it is. thats $30-200. a couple of IC chips @ $8 each.
or you can run an emulator (on the fly tuning) which is $30 if you
already have tunercat.
contact badburban or do a search for chip burning.
airdeano

First, read Badburbans article on Prom tuning in the "Tech Articles" board, then read this http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/promintro.shtml

Next, get yourself an inexpensive Laptop computer.

For FREE Prom editing software (although I would encourage to donate the $30 to register it) go to http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

For prom burning hardware (burners, chips, adapters, ALDL cables, etc.) go to www.moates.net . I recommend that you use flash chips (can be erased and reprogrammed in 30 sec.on your burner) instead of Eproms because you don't need a UV eraser (takes 20 min. to erase an Eprom, 1 min. to program).

For free scanner/datalogging software go to http://winaldl.joby.se/ or go to http://www.ttspowersystems.com/diagnostic.htm for a full blown professional package (around $100 but I think it is worth it).

If you want to make your own ALDL cable go to http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl8192/8192hw.htm and make this one. It is the best most reliable design that I have found.

Last but most important, read as much as possible. Check out all the link pages on the above sites and learn as much as you can. You can be burning your own chips for an initial investment of around $150 plus computer, then upgrade from there if you are so inclined. Be aware, there is a steep learning curve for Prom tuning. You can be datalogging and burning basic chips in a few weeks, but to be proficient at it takes a long time. It is not just logging some data, then burning a chip. It takes a good working knowledge of engine management to do it well. I have been doing it for almost 3 years and am proficient, but there is a lot more I want to learn. I believe this is a valuable tool to have if you want to get the most out of modern computer controlled EFI vehicles. There is a lot of untapped horsepower in those boxes just waiting to be let out with a keyboard. HTH

Dang fellas thanks for the plug. Maybe now that I got my stuff done at work and Im down from 100 hour work weeks I can finally update that article.

HaulinA$$

Thanks for the link to the tunerpro software. Id heard about it before but never checked it out. Looks pretty nice.

Einzee

Pretty much everything HaulinA$$ said. Go flash chips for sure then you just need a burner. And all I can say is Datamaster ROCKS :head: :head: Well worth the $100. As for the edy mpfi kit Im not really that impressed with what Ive seen of it and the peopel who I know runnign it arent either. Might consider another route. Just my $.02 though.

Josh

HaulinA$$

Thanks for the link to the tunerpro software. Id heard about it before but never checked it out. Looks pretty nice.
No problem. I have a definition (.ecu) for the $0D mask and an ALDL datastream definition (.ads) file as well as others if you want copies to try out TunerPro. TunerProRT has a built in scanner/datalogger and was designed for use with the AutoProm realtime emulator (which I use) to emulate/datalog simultaneously, but it will work as a standalone datalogger with a standard ALDL cable. Nice to be able to datalog and edit .bin's with one program, and the best part is it is free.
As for the Edelbrock MPFI, I agree it is not worth the money. You can do better just tuning your stock TBI setup. When I first started Prom tuning, I gained 35 RWHP and a much crisper throttle response and 3 MPG increase from a stock 350 TBI by doing nothing but Prom tuning. JMHO

Tom

You have em and you're holding out on me? gasp :crazy: :kidding:
Send em my way if you dont mind. Ive been toying with the idea of getting an autoprom or trying to build one. Thanks. email is badburban@hotmail.com

Josh

Hey this is alot of great info. Thankyou. Now with this Edelbrock MPFI the figures were about +15/20 Hp by itself. Throw in some heads and a cam now the potential jumps to around +80 Hp <- Edelbrock #'s. They have a pkg, of course, with all this included. No way will I buy their overpriced stuff. I'm really going to use their specs. as a base and go from there. I am currently waiting for the chip that Edelbrock sends to its customers when they purchase the MPFI unit.<-#3 reason i want to learn to burn)
I desire more Hp from this truck. I purchased it 7 months ago for a steal. It was basically bone stock. It has a "new" engine w/warranty. Now that I own it I've done a few mods myself. New: Flowmaster muffler, EGR, ESC, Ign. module, ECM, rebuilt 4 spd OD trans w/shift kit and 2800 stall. Right here is when I went and had a PROM burned.
Since then its got a new Hi-Perf Holley throttle body that is a direct bolt on app. Chip needs to be reprogrammed.<-#2 why I want to learn. The Holley has 42% larger throats and of course the beefed up injectors.
In the very near future I will purchase headers, cam, and heads. Already possessing the MPFI kit, gear drive timing set, and electric water pump.
There's alot in store for this vehicle. I'm a really big fan of fuel inj. Other wise this thing would have already had a Double Pumper on it. The #1 reason I want to learn to burn is so I will have the ability to tinker and tweak with the computer and its functions.

Gear drive timing sets are not compattible with computer controlled vehicles unless you don't want to use a knock sensor. The gear drive units are too noisy and the knock sensor picks up the noise as engine knock. I would go with a good double roller setup and keep the knock sensor. JMHO

WARNING !!!! PROM TUNING CAN BE VERY ADDICTING !!!! :eyecrzy:

Hello, I spoke to Josh(badburban) a couple of months ago about my 95 chevy truck. I hope this is the right place to get some more info about the $0D ecu.

I have made some changes and am in the middle of programming. I have a stock bottom end chevy TBI 350, the $0D ecm and have installed AFR 190 64cc aluminum heads, a custom grind crower cam (212/218 @ .050 with .462/.470 lift 112LSA) I also have 65lb/hr cop car injectors, adjustable FPR, Gibson shorty headers and no cat. Currently I have 3.42 gears and will be going to 3.73 hopefully soon. :aniteef: I am programing with Tunercat and datalogging with Datamaster.

Programming is going well, I have just about got my VE/fuel maps set to where I am happy and most importantly where the engine is happy :) I have also raised the shift points from stock to 5550 @ 1-2, 5400 @ 2-3 etc. My question is where in the $0D will I be able to change my down-shift/"old fashioned passing gear"? Right now my first gear will take me to 38.5mph @ 5550rpm then shift to second and from there second will take me to 68.5mph @ 5400rpm. When in OD or 3rd gear cruising @ 50mph and punch it, it either stays in 3rd gear from 3rd gear or from OD drops to 3rd gear. At 49mph and punch it, it drops to second gear and carrys on up to 68.5mph. This 49mph/50mph barrier is what I am trying to find and raise. Is this change in the ECM constants table at the "Normal Kick Down 3-2"? Or does it have anything to do with the "Main Line Pressure" tables?

I hope that I have not stolen the topic of this post, I am just looking for some help. Thank you in advance.

Brian

Programming is going well, I have just about got my VE/fuel maps set to where I am happy and most importantly where the engine is happy :) I have also raised the shift points from stock to 5550 @ 1-2, 5400 @ 2-3 etc. My question is where in the $0D will I be able to change my down-shift/"old fashioned passing gear"? Right now my first gear will take me to 38.5mph @ 5550rpm then shift to second and from there second will take me to 68.5mph @ 5400rpm. When in OD or 3rd gear cruising @ 50mph and punch it, it either stays in 3rd gear from 3rd gear or from OD drops to 3rd gear. At 49mph and punch it, it drops to second gear and carrys on up to 68.5mph. This 49mph/50mph barrier is what I am trying to find and raise. Is this change in the ECM constants table at the "Normal Kick Down 3-2"? Or does it have anything to do with the "Main Line Pressure" tables?

I hope that I have not stolen the topic of this post, I am just looking for some help. Thank you in advance.

BrianThere is actually 3 places to change and all are in the constants. The main line pressure tables have to do with shift firmness and apply pressures rather than shift points. First of all is the 'Kick Down upper and lower TPS" qualifiers. These determine when the PCM enters and exits the "Kick Down" routine. Set the upper qualifier where you want to enter Kick down. I like around 80-85% TPS. Set the lower qualifier 5% lower (this is the lower hysteresis point where the PCM will exit Kick Down when you let off the throttle). Next, set the "Normal Kick Down 3>2 speed and RPM" constants. Understand that just like the 2>3 settings, the 3>2 speed and RPM settings are anded together before the PCM shifts. What that means is that they must both meet the qualifying criteria at the same time before the shift happens. IOW the PCM must see the RPM and speed thresholds before shifting/downshifting. This is where the datalogs are critical. Normal cruise shift points are set in the "Upshift/Downshift speed vs. TPS" table. Other tables of interest here are the "TCC release/engage MPH vs. TPS" tables. HTH

95nProgress

Glad to hear you tuning is going well. I always like to see people diving in and doing their own tuning. You have to admit it does feel good to say yea I burned the chip for it. HaulinA$$ is right on. Those are the things you need to work on. Now, I realize this post is about prom burning, and I hate to change the topic again like i did before about parts selection but my personal feeling is that if your going to stick with the tbi the afr's are a bit pricey for the performance gains. If you planning on going to something else later on its not such a problem though. But thats Just my $.02.

Josh

Currently I have 3.42 gears and will be going to 3.73 hopefully soon. :aniteef: I am programing with Tunercat and datalogging with Datamaster.
BrianI forgot to mention something. Be sure to change your "RPM/VSS ratio" constant when you change gears and/or rear tire sizes. The PCM needs this value to be correct to properly calculate MPH. It has nothing to do with your speedo, that is controlled independantly by the DRAC module. The formula for calculating the ratio is ((Tire Rev's/mile) X Rear end Gear Ratio)/60. To correct the speedo, you need to change some jumpers in the DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Controller) module. I have a file that explains how to do this if you need it.

Thank you both for your replies! It is people like you that make self tuning possible for people like me. I have read and learned so much over the past 6 months on these forums and others. Call that kissing @$$ but I don't care! Thank you. :rocking:

I have gone from the stock 15" wheel tire package to a 275/50 17. I have changed the DRAC module to get it as close as I can, but did not know that the computer needs the RPM/VSS ratio changed also. Currently my spedo is matched with my wifes car and an unsuspecting caprice taxi cab with the BIG digital spedo, and I feel that it is almost right on. My data logs with the datamaster show a speed about two mph difference now I know how to fix that. My DRAC experience was kind of trial and error so if you could send me that file I would appreciate it.

Brian

P.M. me with your e-mail address and I will jet it to you.

HaulinA$$

Could you send that to me as well. I was just gonna make up a big board with a bunch of switches (I mean I already have all the stuff to do it) and then trial and error figure out which jumpers I needed by turning switches on and off. Pretty ghetto I know but it does work. I figured Id do this now expecially since Im gonna put my 95 dash in sometime soon. I bow to your awesomeness. You got links and files for everything. You write your own code for the $0D hack. I NEED to learn to be able to do that stuff. When I grow up I want to be just like HaulinA$$ :crazy: :kidding:

Josh

hey I'm about to dive in to the 95 tuning too! You guys are making me want an autoprom more and more. I'm going to try tunerpro datalogging for the first time today.

I'm also looking at charging a wb02 on top of that!

Looks like it's pretty much us 5 that have experience on the net with the 0D stuff. I can't wait to dive in. I'd love to finally ditch my fmu, but I don't know if that will be possible...

I'm going to start a new post where we can all interact under the appropriate title!

HaulinA$$

Could you send that to me as well. I was just gonna make up a big board with a bunch of switches (I mean I already have all the stuff to do it) and then trial and error figure out which jumpers I needed by turning switches on and off. Pretty ghetto I know but it does work. I figured Id do this now expecially since Im gonna put my 95 dash in sometime soon. I bow to your awesomeness. You got links and files for everything. You write your own code for the $0D hack. I NEED to learn to be able to do that stuff. When I grow up I want to be just like HaulinA$$ :crazy: :kidding:

JoshO.K. cut it out. My old lady will get mad if you make my head any bigger. I just want to go faster and to me EFI seems the way to go. EFI was just a natural progression for me. I have been a gearhead since my first engine rebuild at 14 (that was 27 years ago. Oops! I just gave away my age). and I have a degree in electronics, so it just fits. I love to tinker and it bugs me when I don't know how something works. As for files and links and other good stuff, I have a ton of it. I am a firm believer in the DIY effort and the more knowledge that is shared, the better.
hey I'm about to dive in to the 95 tuning too! You guys are making me want an autoprom more and more. I'm going to try tunerpro datalogging for the first time today.

I'm also looking at charging a wb02 on top of that!A WBO2 is an excellent tool for proper tuning.
Looks like it's pretty much us 5 that have experience on the net with the 0D stuff. I can't wait to dive in. I'd love to finally ditch my fmu, but I don't know if that will be possible...

I'm going to start a new post where we can all interact under the appropriate title! Maybe we can convince the moderators to start a Computer/Prom tuning board so we can keep the knowledge flowing.

So much for the 0D thread. I'll ask the same question here. Has anyone had success logging with tunerpro? I just tried and couldn't get anything. Datamaster however, worked fine. I'm trying a new .ads file next, which was written by mark himself (according to the sig)

HaulinA$$

You have a distinct advantage over me with your ee background. Im an ME guy who is so stubborn I learned the electrical aspect. I dont like letting other people touch my stuff. Electrical stuff doesnt truly interest me. THere are aspects of it that do like the computer tuning. But I also learned that cause I was stubborn and I like to prove people wrong. I was told I couldnt get mine to do what its done. I agree though. Im a huge fan of DIY. Everything Ive done If i didnt know it I learned it. We need to get a Computer tuning board on here. I can do some more tech articles on various in depth aspects of tuning if it would help along with updating my other article and adding in pics etc if someone will host them. What would also be cool is if we could get a .bin library together obviously with a use at your own risk disclaimer but I feel alot more people would be willing to tune if they had something close to start off of. Ill tell you that for me going from no tuning experience and diving into my 383 was a bit harsh but I did it. Now we'd have to get people who are willing to share their bins but Ill throw mine out there. I mean someone obviously thought enough of this thread to sticky it. Im gonna put something in the suggestions area about maybe starting a computer/prom tuning board. I think its a heck of an idea.

EFI is definitely the best way to make big power. I cant go fast enough either. Im just a young guy (21) but I've been wrenching for about 17 years now (yep I was the only 4 year old swinging wrenches on the block). Granted I didnt completely know what I was doing back then but it turned into my passion and I feel I have a pretty good handle on things. I dont know everything and Ill admit it. There are some many people on this board who I just hope someday to know half as much as them or just as much as they've forgotten and I respect them a great deal. Im actually working on gathering parts for a vary mild T76 6.0 for my dads truck. Im thinking 600+rwhp and 600+rwtq shouldnt be too much of a problem with say 12 ish psi of boost. But this is only to get my hand at tuning with boost and ls1's as a wild big boosted 427 ls1 (gunning for over 1000 hp and tq which I dont think will be a problem) for a new project corvette. But Im new to the ls1 engines so the truck engine will let me play. The compressor map of the t76 is about perfect for the pressure ratio's and operating ranges Im looking at. Plus with my new miller syncrowave 250 tig welder (I got the the tig runner package) and my other cool toys Ill be building it all myself.

*Edit* Ok I feel stupid. Ill read the other posts from here on out. Im gonna move over to the other thread now.

*Edit* stuckatcuse
I havent played with either yet but Im gonna give it a whirl here pretty soon. Ill let you know how it goes. I liked datamaster so much I never even bothered looking for anyother logging software. Ill probably start playing with tunerpro this weekend as I have some tweaking I want to do on mine.

Josh

Hey guys I just got it working. I loaded marks file and the other guys file had the aldl dump command wrong. 57 instead of 56. Thats cool. Now there's one big problem. I can see the graphic displays (only 2) but I can't see any of the numeric values. The screens are just blank. It's almost as if they aren't on. I'm wondering if this is a programming bug?

Can you send me a copy of Marks .ads file. If I get a chance, I will check it out tomorrow in the AutoProm. TIA

P.S. Which ALDL cable are you using?

HaulinA$$
File sent.

I'm using my own cable:
www.diagnosticcables.com

*edit*

I found out my problem

from the FAQ page on mark's site:
3. Nothing appears in the ALDL Data or ALDL Bits pages. Why not?

You need to have the latest Rich Edit module installed (particularly for Win98/95 users). You can download it here. Unzip this file to your Windows *or* Windows System(32) directory. Altenately, you can also simply unzip it in your TunerPro RT install folder directory.

Once I do this I should have the tunerpro data logging working completely with 0D / 16197427 ECM . I'm interested to try the CSV format. I'm pretty handy with matlab and excell. I'll let you all know how it works out.

got it working completely now! Sweet deal. Can't wait for a wideband or an autoprom!

Could you $0D guys send me a copy of your spark maps both the open throttle and closed throttle. Could you also please give a little description of what your engine and mods etc. are? I am in the middle of tweaking my spark maps and would like some examples. Thanks in advance.

Could you $0D guys send me a copy of your spark maps both the open throttle and closed throttle. Could you also please give a little description of what your engine and mods etc. are? I am in the middle of tweaking my spark maps and would like some examples. Thanks in advance.
Right now I'm running the stock BJYL tune (for a tahoe).
Hey, where'd you get your afr's?

Could you $0D guys send me a copy of your spark maps both the open throttle and closed throttle. Could you also please give a little description of what your engine and mods etc. are? I am in the middle of tweaking my spark maps and would like some examples. Thanks in advance.No, I won't give you a copy of my spark maps but, I will do you one better, I will tell you how to do it yourself. That is the whole point. I can't tune your truck from a distance, but I can share what I've learned so you can tune your truck which you have right in front of you. This is the only way to truly tune a vehicle and get it right, hands on. O.K. lets begin.
Spark tuning should be broken up into four different areas. Idle, part throttle cruise, wide open throttle, and decelleration. Each area representing different engine loads and different tuning. Whenever possible, start with your stock timing table as they are usually not that far off from where you need to be but can be improved substantially. Obviously, a timing table from a 3/4 ton 4x4 EC 350 TBI is gonna be different from a 1/2 ton 2wd RC 350 TBI due to the 1000 lb. weight difference.
Idle. This one is easy. Tune timing for the most engine vacuum (least KPa) during idle. If tuning an automatic, do it in D and the brake on.
Part throttle. Now it gets a little tougher. Find a loooong flat stretch of road. Tune at various RPM's (change gears) for maximum data points. Make a run down the road at a specific TPS value and RPM by using different gears. Note vehicle speed. Make timing changes and repeat. Do this until the vehicle reaches the highest speed for a given TPS value. Use the least amount of timing needed to achieve this. Next, move on to a long stretch of downhill road and uphill road and repeat. This step will require the most time to get right. When it comes to timing, don't believe what you hear. More is not better.
Wide open throtle. Now it gets even tougher yet. A general rule for WOT timing for Trucks especially is that max timing during WOT will be somewhere near or slightly above or below idle timing. Lighter vehicles may like a little more timing here. Find an isolated stretch of road or do this on test-n-tune night at the strip. Make small timing changes then check the results with either your datalogger (I like to use the 0-60 and 1/4 mile calculators), a G-Tech meter or your time slip. If you use your timeslip, tune for best trap speed rather than E.T. as this is a better indicator of power. Don't trust your seat of the pants meter as it can easily fool you. The data doesn't lie.
Decelleration. This is easy. If you have an automatic truck. set the timing the same as the nearest part throttle areas tuned. If you have a stick, you may elect to retard the timing in the 20 Kpa area by 4-6 degrees to aid in decelleration compression braking. If you do this with an auto, you may overheat the tranny.
Some final thoughts. As for closed throttle timing, I set it exactly the same as open throttle since only a few areas of this table are ever used. Each engine/vehicle combination is different and therefore requires different tuning. In short, give the engine what it wants, not what you think it needs. Generally, aluminum headed engines can run more timing due to lower combustion chamber temps. Detonation is caused by excessive combustion chamber temps. If your tripping the knock sensor, it may be because of what was happening just before. If your engine likes more timing but you are tripping the knock sensor, try a colder thermostat or richer mixture to cool the cc or something else. Use your head. Research and learn as much as possible. Don't go by "well this guy said, or that guy said". It seems to me, too many people are too quick to try something they heard or some yahoo told them about instead of doing the research. Now I rant. JMHO HTH

Guys listen to HaulinA$$. a genious. Everytime he hits the nail on the head. Great explanations and well worded.

Guys could you do me a favor. I completely updated my prom burning article. Cqan you re-read it and make sure everything I say is correct, grammatically decent, well explained, etc. Thanks I appreciate it.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45225&page=1&pp=20

Josh

Hauln, thank you very much for the instructions and guidance. I was really kinda taking pot shots at my timing maps and you have given me a pretty clear plan of action.
Since my head and cam swap I have been running a modified spark map derived from my Ed Wright stage I chip. I was experiencing a knock sense at random areas but I didn't really notice any detonation(hearing and also looking at the plugs) but I went ahead and decresed timing in thoes areas on the map. The knock reads were still there. I think that I was chasing a false knock read. I read on thirdgen.org about a 90deg tee on the KS would make it a little less sensitive so I put one on. This got rid of almost all of the knock reads.
With the base timing set at 0deg the truck ran better than stock but really didn't seem to be THAT(head & cam) much better. So I turned the base timing up 6deg and it started to come to life. At the time, one of my areas of concern was at part throttle cruise (45-50mph) to WOT I would occasionally get a backfire through the TBI. I was fortunate enough to get it to do this while I was dataloging one time and saw the problem. That area of the map was around 9deg of timing. This is what, (parden the pun) "sparked" my desire to further tweak my spark map. (Ohh that was bad....)
With my setup(see signature) what would you suggest for a starting baseling timing setting? The actual distributor is at 6deg timing (read with the computer timing control wire disconnected). Do I also need to change the basline timing in the constants area of the program? And if so what will this do to how it feels right now? Will it drop it back to where it meets the timing of the timing charts?
Also, for the idle tuning, basically I want to tune the timing for the lowest map while idling in drive with the brake on? (I.E. Idle in drive at 700rpm, change timing values until map reading is at its lowest?)


Thanks


Stuckatcuse, I purchaced my AFR heads and the cam from a very helpful guy on e-bay. He was going to do this setup but changed his mind. (He already was running 13.8sec 1/4mile with his stock heads ported!)

Brian

Josh, That is the article that made me contact you the first time. It is great!, you should submit that to a magazine or something!

Brian

95nProgress, here's what I'd do if I were you. I would set the base timing back to 0. When you advanced the base timiing 6 deg., you found that in some areas it liked it and in others it didn't (i.e. the backfire during cruise). Many people fall into the trap of believing more timing is better. Totally false. We with computer controlled timing enjoy the best of all worlds in that we have total control of the engines timing in all areas. This is great. O.K. now why would I set the base back to 0. There are two reasons. First, when you advance base timing too much, you can run into hard restart problems. All engines like very little to no timing at startup, especially hot. Second, and most important is that since we have total timing control, why not give the engine what it wants via the timing table instead of faking it out by telling the PCM that base timing is at 0 when it is really at 6. Some guys like to fake out the PCM this way and sometimes it is actually necessary (I wont get into that here) but I don't because then you have to re-calculate actual timing if you don't change the constants. Why not let the PCM have total control and read correctly. If you set everything back to a known good starting point and follow the guide in my previous post, you will find what the engine wants. As for clarification on idle timing, you are correct. Lowest MAP reading during idle in D, brake on. You may find that as you increase timing, the MAP reading drops then as you keep going the MAP stays the same. This is universally true, you want the least amount of timing for maximum performance. If you found that idle MAP was best at 24 deg. to 28 deg., set the timing to 24 deg. Lastly, as for dealing with percieved false knock (i.e. the engine wants more timing but the knock circuit is removing timing), the first thing I do is put in a cooler thermostat. HTH

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that when I tune timing, I eliminate as many spark adders/subtractors as possible. I zero out the PE spark table (and leave it this way). I disable EGR and zero out the EGR spark adder. I make sure the engine is at temp so that Coolant spark doesn't (or zero out the area where the engine operates if I have swapped to a cooler t-stat) come in, then I disable ESC (error 43). This way I know that none of these things are affecting timing and I can tune with the least amount of variables invloved. :banghead:

Thanks for the info. I will set my timing at the distributor back to zero and modify my timing charts from there. Its funny, I was looking at my datalogs and saw a flat spot in the RPM around 4200-4400. I looked at my PE spark and saw a crazy 4.4 increase in timing at 4400rpm! I zeroed the PE table out and am gonna do another datalog tonight.

For the part throttle curize timing, do you know of any "real time" way to do this?

Oh, and by the way, I do have a 170deg thermostat.

Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated!

Brian

The only way to tune "real time" is with an Emulator (a device that emulates an Eprom but can be altered on the fly), but that is definetly an advanced tool plus there are many other more beneficial tools to get before an emulator. It is too easy to melt pistons when playing with timing, especially if it leans out. Burn a few chips with small changes in them and go datalogging. Analyze the data and repeat. Once you get a feel for what changes affect what, things will go quicker. As mentioned in the articles, it takes a while to get the knack, usually many chips.

Something I've been toying with the idea of buying but haven't got the cash for right now is the Xtronics pockt romulator, an EEPROM emulator for $179, unlike the autoprom it doesn't burn chips but its a lot cheaper than $325.

Right now my problem is a severe lack of truck...parted out my '72 since the cab was junk and sold cort (Farkum) the engine/454 TBI setup, I'm looking at a nice blue '67 LWB right now, kept the TBI harness & computer I retrofitted EFI onto the '72 with and that will surely go on the next 67-72 truck I buy.

I'm definitely interested in actually doing some tuning beyond just the EFI swap on the old truck when I get it, and the idea of using flash-prom instead of EEPROM is appealing - can someone point me to what chip I'll need to use to replace the EEPROM in a 1227747 ECM, and where I can purchase one?

Unfortuneatly there is no direct flash replacement for the 2732 in your ECM, however all is not lost. With an adapter, you can use either a 29C256 or 27SF512 chip. You can either burn your .bin file to the upper most 4K, stack the same .bin 8 or 16 times (depending on which chip you use) and burn it, or my favorite, use a switching adapter and burn multiple .bins on the same chip and switch between them. All of the chips and adapters are available at www.moates.net . TunerPro has a .bin stacking feature. HTH

Transmission controls...

Tuning is going good, fuel is almost right on, 128 at cruise etc., turned the FP up to 13 and am getting around 12.7afr at high RPM WOT. Set idle spark and found 25.5deg to be the sweet spot(lowest kpa). I am now playing with the cruise spark settings and then the WOT spark settings.

I have noticed something with my transmission. When comming to a stop I feel a surge and then a release, and sometimes the engine rpm drops below target idle. With my datalog i see what is going on. At the change from 5 to 4 mph the TCC DC (torque converter clutch duty cycle) goes from 90.19 to 0. I believe this is the point where the TCC lets go for idle conditions. I have looked at my $0D parameters and cannot see where I can change this. I would like to raise the mph or smooth this operation out. Does anybody know what to do?

Thanks in advance

Brian

No matter what info/data is looked up the only right way to do it is give the engine what it wants, not what you think it wants.

I've got some good mods in the works... (454 TBI, Weiand 7525 Manifold, Ported L98 Heads). I want to start practicing tuning now. I know I need to eliminate as many free parameters as necessary. I don't have a wb-02 yet so I'll just be tuning for cruise.
Here are my questions:
How do I eliminate PE mode? Is there a flag? I'm running $OD_02.ecu in tunerpro. I see the WOT delay and WOT RPM. I don't see a TPS constant though? Can anyone demistify this for me?
What are the AFR Mode words in the flags dialog?
How do I get the transmission to allow the engine to rev past 4500 RPM? (I should make power up to about 6K with my new setup.)
I can't tune for Positive manifold pressures, so my goal is to keep my afr correct at positive pressures. (Perhaps tune WOT AFR vs RPM table incorporating my boost-referenced FPR.) Then I'll leave the AFPR screw in the same point and tune my negative manifold pressure vs. RPM and spark tables?
Does this sound like a good strategy?
Thanks

Transmission controls...

Tuning is going good, fuel is almost right on, 128 at cruise etc., turned the FP up to 13 and am getting around 12.7afr at high RPM WOT. Set idle spark and found 25.5deg to be the sweet spot(lowest kpa). I am now playing with the cruise spark settings and then the WOT spark settings.

I have noticed something with my transmission. When comming to a stop I feel a surge and then a release, and sometimes the engine rpm drops below target idle. With my datalog i see what is going on. At the change from 5 to 4 mph the TCC DC (torque converter clutch duty cycle) goes from 90.19 to 0. I believe this is the point where the TCC lets go for idle conditions. I have looked at my $0D parameters and cannot see where I can change this. I would like to raise the mph or smooth this operation out. Does anybody know what to do?

Thanks in advance

Brian

No matter what info/data is looked up the only right way to do it is give the engine what it wants, not what you think it wants.
I have briefly looked at the TCC DC data before and cannot make any sense of it. Here is what I know and have verified. The "Torque Converter Engage/Release vs TPS" tables control where the converter locks up/releases. This can be verified by a light accelleration through all gears. When the converter locks up, it feels like it has shifted into a 5th gear. Tap on the brake pedal and the converter releases then re-engages. This brings me to my next point. As long as the brake is on the converter will not lock. Look at the "TCC Enable" status bit in the transmission data display. When this bit is off, the converter will not lock. Also look at the "Slip RPM" data. When the converter is locked, the slip RPM will be zero or very close to it. When the converter is unlocked, there will be significant slip RPM. I'm not sure what is causing your surge without seeing the data. Could be fuel or spark related, possibly when the PCM switches from the off idle fuel and spark tables to the idle stuff. I have seen that before. HTH

EDIT: You might want to check this out. Not specific to our PCM but very infofmative. http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/tcc.txt

I've got some good mods in the works... (454 TBI, Weiand 7525 Manifold, Ported L98 Heads). I want to start practicing tuning now. I know I need to eliminate as many free parameters as necessary. I don't have a wb-02 yet so I'll just be tuning for cruise.
Here are my questions:
How do I eliminate PE mode? Is there a flag? I'm running $OD_02.ecu in tunerpro. I see the WOT delay and WOT RPM. I don't see a TPS constant though? Can anyone demistify this for me?
What are the AFR Mode words in the flags dialog?
How do I get the transmission to allow the engine to rev past 4500 RPM? (I should make power up to about 6K with my new setup.)
I can't tune for Positive manifold pressures, so my goal is to keep my afr correct at positive pressures. (Perhaps tune WOT AFR vs RPM table incorporating my boost-referenced FPR.) Then I'll leave the AFPR screw in the same point and tune my negative manifold pressure vs. RPM and spark tables?
Does this sound like a good strategy?
Thanks
O.K., first of all, let me clear up a common misconception. PE (Power Enrichment) and WOT (Wide Open Throttle) are essentially the same thing. Technically, WOT is just that, wide open throttle (TPS = 100%), however, having said that, for tuning purposes, the terms are interchangeable. There are two ways to disable PE, but be warned. Unless you have a stockpile of pistons and enjoy replacing them, disabling PE can make you dangerously lean under load and cause severe detonation. I personally would not attempt this without a WB O2 sensor. There are two entry points into PE. The first one is the "TPS Threshold vs RPM for WOT" table. This table works in conjunction with the "WOT Delay Period" and the "RPM to Bypass WOT Delay" constants. Once the PCM sees the TPS threshold to enter PE, the delay is then engaged and runs until one of three things happens before actually entering PE. First, the delay runs and times out, or, second, the bypass RPM is reached which bypasses the delay, or, third, the other entry into PE is engaged. This other entry to PE is the "TPS Threshold vs RPM for WOT (Fast)" table. The way this works is when the PCM sees the TPS threshold in this table, it immediately goes into PE without any other qualifiers. Now, how do you disable PE? The first way is to set these TPS thresholds to maximum so that PE is never engaged or you can leave these alone and set the "WOT AFR vs RPM" table to 14.7 across the board. This should demistify PE and WOT. The AFR mode words are bit words to enable/disable different operating modes and/or routines such as selecting automatic or manual trans, charcoal canister purge, etc. To raise the shift points in WOT, use the 'Normal Kickdown" (kickdown is basically WOT for the tranny) speed and RPM constants, just be sure to play with the upshift and downshift points. Your datalogs will help alot here. As for your fueling strategy, it looks like that should work, just be careful. HTH

thanks a ton! I checked my service manual and couldn't find the map to all the "words" do you have it somewhere, or do you know where it would be listed in the service manual or on line?

thanks a ton! I checked my service manual and couldn't find the map to all the "words" do you have it somewhere, or do you know where it would be listed in the service manual or on line?
In TunerPro, when you look at the AFR Mode Word flags, hit F10. This will turn on the "Item Comments/Help" and show what all the bit flags mean. You can also find this info in the $0D hack. HTH

Where is the $0D hack?

Where is the $0D hack?
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/oddworld/24/Nfo/ECMDetail.htm

If you can't open the .SRC file format, just rename the file with a .txt extension. Enjoy!

I'm making this too easy for you guys! LOL

Does any of this work with the Body Control Module (BCM)? I'm trying to do some lighting stuff (like export rear fog lights). Can't find anything out there except to buy a $3000 Tech 2 and write "Mr. Badwrench" on my shirt with a marker pen. OBTW - I have been using an AutoXray (read only) for years and love it.

Does any of this work with the Body Control Module (BCM)? I'm trying to do some lighting stuff (like export rear fog lights). Can't find anything out there except to buy a $3000 Tech 2 and write "Mr. Badwrench" on my shirt with a marker pen. OBTW - I have been using an AutoXray (read only) for years and love it.
The $0D broadcast code and all the other stuff in this thread is for EPROM based OBDI (pre 1996) stuff not the Flash ROM based OBDII stuff. Good luck in finding something for the BCM. All the OBDII stuff I have seen, and there is quite a bit of it out there, is unbelievably expensive. LS1Edit comes to mind. $450 or so for a single PCM license. You may be on your own. If you do come up with something, the diy community would much appreciate it if you would share.

Hi Guys. I am very new to this stuff and have downloaded the Tunerpro RT and have cables on the way. Now for my question, I'm not trying to change anything (yet), I just want to see if I can find out why my truck is missing at idle. Can this program be used to look and tell why I have a miss. And what progams do I need for a 95 chevy with a 16197427 ECM. I have downloaded the 31voo2a.ecu mask $31 file from tunerpro's site. Is this the only file I need to download just to take a look at what my engines doing? I'm getting some great info out of this thread (for later use), so any info on the questions I asked would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Hi Guys. I am very new to this stuff and have downloaded the Tunerpro RT and have cables on the way. Now for my question, I'm not trying to change anything (yet), I just want to see if I can find out why my truck is missing at idle. Can this program be used to look and tell why I have a miss. And what progams do I need for a 95 chevy with a 16197427 ECM. I have downloaded the 31voo2a.ecu mask $31 file from tunerpro's site. Is this the only file I need to download just to take a look at what my engines doing? I'm getting some great info out of this thread (for later use), so any info on the questions I asked would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
What model truck and engine do you have? The $31 mask is for HD trucks. Most likely you are running the $0D mask. Just to clarify, an .ecu file is used to tell TunerPro and other programs how to "decipher" and modify the contents of the PROM. It has nothing to do with datalogging. TunerProRT can edit PROMS and log data. It uses an .ads file to "decipher" the ALDL datastream. Once you can log ALDL data, TunerPro or any other datalogging/scanning software will not "tell" you why you have a miss at idle. All it will do is show you the trouble codes and ALDL data in a legible format. It is up to you to figure out what is wrong. Read my post at the beginning of this thread, then, read all the referenced material, then re-read it again and again. Things will start to become more clear. This stuff has a steep learning curve but can easily be mastered with persistance. Welcome to PROM tuning/datalogging.

What model truck and engine do you have? The $31 mask is for HD trucks. Most likely you are running the $0D mask. Just to clarify, an .ecu file is used to tell TunerPro and other programs how to "decipher" and modify the contents of the PROM. It has nothing to do with datalogging. TunerProRT can edit PROMS and log data. It uses an .ads file to "decipher" the ALDL datastream. Once you can log ALDL data, TunerPro or any other datalogging/scanning software will not "tell" you why you have a miss at idle. All it will do is show you the trouble codes and ALDL data in a legible format. It is up to you to figure out what is wrong. Read my post at the beginning of this thread, then, read all the referenced material, then re-read it again and again. Things will start to become more clear. This stuff has a steep learning curve but can easily be mastered with persistance. Welcome to PROM tuning/datalogging.I have a 95 chevy ext. cab 350 5.7. All I'm wanting to do is watch what the sensors are doing. I can do that with tunerpro RT right? I'm not going to be jumping into changing anything just yet. I know I can't use WinALDL because of my ECM baud rate. I know it won't per say tell me why I have a miss, but by watching what the sensors are doing I can get an idea. I'm not throwing any trouble codes, so that's why I'm wanting to watch the sensors are doing. What would I need to just watch what the sensors are doing. Thanks. BTW this is what I got off of tunerpro website. 31v002a.ecu $31 16197427/16156930 95 C/K Truck or Van, 5.7/7.4 That's my truck and engine and ECM#.

I have a 95 chevy ext. cab 350 5.7. All I'm wanting to do is watch what the sensors are doing. I can do that with tunerpro RT right? I'm not going to be jumping into changing anything just yet. I know I can't use WinALDL because of my ECM baud rate. I know it won't per say tell me why I have a miss, but by watching what the sensors are doing I can get an idea. I'm not throwing any trouble codes, so that's why I'm wanting to watch the sensors are doing. What would I need to just watch what the sensors are doing. Thanks. BTW this is what I got off of tunerpro website. 31v002a.ecu $31 16197427/16156930 95 C/K Truck or Van, 5.7/7.4 That's my truck and engine and ECM#.
Yes you can do that with TunerProRT. Don't be too sure you're not throwing a code. I have seen too many SES bulbs burned out. All you need to scan/log ALDL data is TunerProRT, the proper .ads file for your PCM and an 8192 baud bi-directional (if you wan't to be able to reset trouble codes) ALDL cable. You might also want to check out Datamaster. It is much more user friendly and IMHO is superior to TunerProRT. You can download it and use it 20 times for free, after that it will cost you $100. IMHO if you "get into" PROM tuning, it is a worthwhile investment. TunerProRT is tailored to the more advanced user but still an excellent choice. I use both. Lastly, if you want to edit PROMS, try the $0D mask. I'm 99% sure that is what you have. Do some more research and you will see this.

Yes you can do that with TunerProRT. Don't be too sure you're not throwing a code. I have seen too many SES bulbs burned out. All you need to scan/log ALDL data is TunerProRT, the proper .ads file for your PCM and an 8192 baud bi-directional (if you wan't to be able to reset trouble codes) ALDL cable. You might also want to check out Datamaster. It is much more user friendly and IMHO is superior to TunerProRT. You can download it and use it 20 times for free, after that it will cost you $100. IMHO if you "get into" PROM tuning, it is a worthwhile investment. TunerProRT is tailored to the more advanced user but still an excellent choice. I use both. Lastly, if you want to edit PROMS, try the $0D mask. I'm 99% sure that is what you have. Do some more research and you will see this.Thanks for the info. I know I'm not throwing any codes because I have checked. But I was wanting to watch what the sensors were doing. Thanks, I will check out Datamaster.

All hail haulnA$$

All hail haulnA$$
I'm not worthy, just a hopeless gearhead on a mission.

Well I tried Datamaster. It seems like a very good program, but I can't get my com. port setting right. It won't let me choose any now. It was letting me choose between 2 & 3. Now it just has the "none" box checked. I unistalled it and will try tomorrow to reinstall it to see if that helps. Man I would like to get that program running, it seemed like the best one I have seen yet, for what I'm wanting to do. Update:: Since I'm about out of chances with Datamaster, I went back to TunerproRT. I think I finally got everything I need now. I'm going to try again tomorrow, hopefully my cables will work. Thanks again guys, and I'm sure this won't be the last you hear from me. :dunce:

Ok guys I tried the TunerproRT this morning. It says it was connected but it was showing no data. The cable I have is just plugged into the terminal A and M. Do I need the 10k resistor jumper across A&B? and do I need a 12v power sorce hooked up? It for a 95 chevy 350 5.7.

Which cable are you using? Which .ads file are you using with TunerProRT? You definetly do not need the 10K resistor. You are connected to the right pins if your truck has the 12 pin ALDL connector. Some '95 TBI trucks have the D shaped 16 pin ALDL connector found on OBDII vehicles. It is this way on my '95 S-10 V-6 TBI truck. If this is the case, ground is pin 5 and 8192 baud ALDL data is on pin 9. As for the 12V power source, this depends on which design cable you are using and the serial port of your laptop.

Which cable are you using? Which .ads file are you using with TunerProRT? You definetly do not need the 10K resistor. You are connected to the right pins if your truck has the 12 pin ALDL connector. Some '95 TBI trucks have the D shaped 16 pin ALDL connector found on OBDII vehicles. It is this way on my '95 S-10 V-6 TBI truck. If this is the case, ground is pin 5 and 8192 baud ALDL data is on pin 9. As for the 12V power source, this depends on which design cable you are using and the serial port of your laptop.
I got the cable from here. http://www.customefis.com/cableorder.html It just has a black and red wire coming out of it. I have the file 0D A217 Engine v1_0.zip File Size: 19.09 KB from moates and the 31v002a.ecu file off of Tunerpro site. I am connecting the red to the Pin "M" and the black to pin "A" on my ALDL. I'm also running a USB converter to my computer. It says it's connected, it's just not showing any data. Thanks for the help.

There was a problem with a driver file from tunerpro. I had the same thing happen to me. GO to mark's website and check out the faq. Download the fix. It's a problem for particular versions of windows.

There was a problem with a driver file from tunerpro. I had the same thing happen to me. GO to mark's website and check out the faq. Download the fix. It's a problem for particular versions of windows.Mark?? lol. remember I'm new to this... Thanks.

Mark?? lol. remember I'm new to this... Thanks.

Sorry, mark wrote tunerpro. Go to the tunerpro website and click on the faq.
Better yet:
http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/tunerpro/FAQ.htm#T3
Check out question #3.

Sorry, mark wrote tunerpro. Go to the tunerpro website and click on the faq.
Better yet:
http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/tunerpro/FAQ.htm#T3
Check out question #3.
Downloaded it and still nothing. Thanks though.

Downloaded it and still nothing. Thanks though.Ahhhh! You're using the .ads from moates.net. That might be your problem. stuckatcuse had the same problem. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. There is another .ads for the $0D stuff that Mark wrote. I have a copy. I can send it to you if you want or you can try this. Edit the .ads file you have to make it work. Change the 57 in the ALDL dump command to 56. The .ads file you have is a lot more complete that Marks. HTH

Ahhhh! You're using the .ads from moates.net. That might be your problem. stuckatcuse had the same problem. It was mentioned earlier in this thread. There is another .ads for the $0D stuff that Mark wrote. I have a copy. I can send it to you if you want or you can try this. Edit the .ads file you have to make it work. Change the 57 in the ALDL dump command to 56. The .ads file you have is a lot more complete that Marks. HTHThank you. You can send the info to LOWGRN1@AOL.com. plus I will try the change to the other one. I apperciate the help. Not very often you will find somebody that has the patience and try to help somebody that knows nothing about what he's asking..You guys :head:

Thank you. You can send the info to LOWGRN1@AOL.com. plus I will try the change to the other one. I apperciate the help. Not very often you will find somebody that has the patience and try to help somebody that knows nothing about what he's asking..You guys :head:I help you, you help him, and he helps someone else, etc., etc., etc., and so on, and so on. This is how we all learn. The only bad part is, some poeple will take advantage of the DIY community for profit, then the sharing stops, and we all suffer.

Hey Haulin, what set up are you useing for datalogging. In other words, cable, program, and computer. Also are you useing a usb cable adaptor or not? Thanks. I have tried to get my cable (even went and bought a new radio shack cable). Nothing has worked. Much apperciated.

Hey Haulin, what set up are you useing for datalogging. In other words, cable, program, and computer. Also are you useing a usb cable adaptor or not? Thanks. I have tried to get my cable (even went and bought a new radio shack cable). Nothing has worked. Much apperciated.There is a USB to serial conversion driver that I had to load when I got my USB version AutoProm. You may need it too. Not sure. Worth a try. You can download it at the moates.net hardware page. I made my own ALDL cable. I used the design that I referenced at the beginning of this thread. I have 2 Dell laptops with serial ports built in, one is a 233 MHz Pentium II machine, the other is a 1GHz Pentium III machine. Both do everything fine. I have also datalogged on my AutoProm which is the USB version. Normally I run Datamaster or my LM-1 WB O2 on the serial port for datalogging and I simultaneously run TunerCatRT or TunerProRT with the AutoProm for EPROM emulation on the USB port. Keep at it. You'll get it.

There is a USB to serial conversion driver that I had to load when I got my USB version AutoProm. You may need it too. Not sure. Worth a try. You can download it at the moates.net hardware page. I made my own ALDL cable. I used the design that I referenced at the beginning of this thread. I have 2 Dell laptops with serial ports built in, one is a 233 MHz Pentium II machine, the other is a 1GHz Pentium III machine. Both do everything fine. I have also datalogged on my AutoProm which is the USB version. Normally I run Datamaster or my LM-1 WB O2 on the serial port for datalogging and I simultaneously run TunerCatRT or TunerProRT with the AutoProm for EPROM emulation on the USB port. Keep at it. You'll get it.

Word. It took me a while to get my cable working. It's great when it actually does!

Well I can't get it to work after all the downloading...so I'm going to get another laptop off Ebay that has a serial port, and start over from there. I have been useing my wife's teaching laptop and she's going to need it back to teach with. So I'm going to get my own older laptop with windows 98 and a serial port and then download Tunerpro RT and the .ads file Haulin sent me. I'll get back with you guys. Again thanks for all the help, and hopefully I can be where you guys are someday. BTW can somebody check out this cable and let me know if it will work. http://winaldl.joby.se/aldlcable.htm I got it from www.customefis.com.

Well I can't get it to work after all the downloading...so I'm going to get another laptop off Ebay that has a serial port, and start over from there. I have been useing my wife's teaching laptop and she's going to need it back to teach with. So I'm going to get my own older laptop with windows 98 and a serial port and then download Tunerpro RT and the .ads file Haulin sent me. I'll get back with you guys. Again thanks for all the help, and hopefully I can be where you guys are someday. BTW can somebody check out this cable and let me know if it will work. http://winaldl.joby.se/aldlcable.htm I got it from www.customefis.com.

I use a max232 type cable. It works great. It's also easy to make if you know how to solder. I can give you some links if you want. I'd bet your cable will work. Try datamaster as a test. It connects very reliably.

I use a max232 type cable. It works great. It's also easy to make if you know how to solder. I can give you some links if you want. I'd bet your cable will work. Try datamaster as a test. It connects very reliably. I would but it won't let me pic a com port. It's all locked up. It just has the "none" box checked, and won't let me chose a com port..??? I tried to unistall it and then reinstall but it was the same way. I was going to get another computer but now I think I will try moates's cable and usb converter.

Well I can't get it to work after all the downloading...so I'm going to get another laptop off Ebay that has a serial port, and start over from there. I have been useing my wife's teaching laptop and she's going to need it back to teach with. So I'm going to get my own older laptop with windows 98 and a serial port and then download Tunerpro RT and the .ads file Haulin sent me. I'll get back with you guys. Again thanks for all the help, and hopefully I can be where you guys are someday. BTW can somebody check out this cable and let me know if it will work. http://winaldl.joby.se/aldlcable.htm I got it from www.customefis.com.That cable won't work. It is a 160 baud cable. If you can solder on an experimenters PCB from Radio Shack, build this cable http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl8192/8192hw.htm then put it in an experimenters box like I did. It is the one I referred to at the beginning of this thread. It is an 8192 baud bi-directional cable, which is important because it will allow you to send commands (like the "clear trouble codes" command) to the PCM as well as recieve data. If you can't solder, you can buy a good cable from this guy http://www.akmcables.com/index.htm . They're not real cheap but they work well. If you can see your way clear, buy the one with the molded ALDL connector. I updated mine to the molded connector which I got from Craig Moates and it rocks.

That cable won't work. It is a 160 baud cable. If you can solder on an experimenters PCB from Radio Shack, build this cable http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl8192/8192hw.htm then put it in an experimenters box like I did. It is the one I referred to at the beginning of this thread. It is an 8192 baud bi-directional cable, which is important because it will allow you to send commands (like the "clear trouble codes" command) to the PCM as well as recieve data. If you can't solder, you can buy a good cable from this guy http://www.akmcables.com/index.htm . They're not real cheap but they work well. If you can see your way clear, buy the one with the molded ALDL connector. I updated mine to the molded connector which I got from Craig Moates and it rocks.
Well now ain't that a b*tch.. :damnit: I think I will just buy the Moates CABL1 OBD1-Style ALDL Connector and the ALDU1 USB-to-ALDL Converter. Does this sound like a good plan??? Anybody need a cheap 160 buad cable???

Thanks again HaulnA$$, I was aware of smoothing one chart to the next i.e. spark open throttle to closed throttle as well as fuel. I had my spark pretty seamless but somehow, through my fuel table adjusting my fuel at open throttle map and my fuel at idle map was pretty far off from each other. This helped my slowdown surging problem a little but it didn't eliminate it. I am still searching. I am going to try to attach my latest Datamaster datalog to this message. It is a $0D with engine and tranny alternating.

Thanks

Brian

Well now ain't that a b*tch.. :damnit: I think I will just buy the Moates CABL1 OBD1-Style ALDL Connector and the ALDU1 USB-to-ALDL Converter. Does this sound like a good plan??? Anybody need a cheap 160 buad cable???That will work. Craig makes first rate stuff. Sorry about the 160 Baud cable. I'm sure you could sell it on Ebay. Are you sure that is the design of the cable you have. According to his website, the Custom EFI's ALDL cable will work with the 8192 baud rate. Maybe its your USB to serial converter. Many people have a lot of trouble with them that is why I have laptops with built-in serial ports and USB ports.

Thanks again HaulnA$$, I was aware of smoothing one chart to the next i.e. spark open throttle to closed throttle as well as fuel. I had my spark pretty seamless but somehow, through my fuel table adjusting my fuel at open throttle map and my fuel at idle map was pretty far off from each other. This helped my slowdown surging problem a little but it didn't eliminate it. I am still searching. I am going to try to attach my latest Datamaster datalog to this message. It is a $0D with engine and tranny alternating.

Thanks

BrianYou are definetly on the right track. I looked at the log and watched the Idle bit. When decellerating to a stop and the bit is off, the injector BPW is around 1.2 mS and as soon as the bit goes true, the BPW jumps to around 1.6 mS causing a surge. Your idle and off idle fuel tables are not matched. Copy the 400, 800, 1200, and 1600 RPM data from the off idle fuel table and paste it into the near idle fuel table then use the graph mode to smooth the Idle fuel table in the data areas between the pasted values. Be aware that the PCM uses a seperate set of BLM's when in idle mode. When calibrating your fuel tables you have to keep the idle and off idle BLM's seperate. What I do is export the file to Excell, sort the BLM data and seperate the idle stuff according to the MPH and TPS qualifier constants. I set my open and closed throttle spark tables exactly the same. HTH

Okay, I broke down and bought the "Whole Shibang" from Moates. I bought the APU1 package which includes: Flash Programmer, TunerPro RT, emulator, ALDL cable. I also bought a ZIF for the memcal, and some spare chips. Do you think I will have probs. using Windows ME? Also, is it easy to change constants? Better yet, what would be the best/easiest changes to make for the first timer. BTW I have read the article on Thirdgen, so I have an idea, but I would like to hear from someone who has tuned for trucks. I drive a 1995 ECSB with a 305 (soon to be 330 hp Crate GMPP 350), with 4L60 trans. I currently have K&N, Exhaust, 4.10 gears with 33's.

Okay, I broke down and bought the "Whole Shibang" from Moates. I bought the APU1 package which includes: Flash Programmer, TunerPro RT, emulator, ALDL cable. I also bought a ZIF for the memcal, and some spare chips. Do you think I will have probs. using Windows ME? Also, is it easy to change constants? Better yet, what would be the best/easiest changes to make for the first timer. BTW I have read the article on Thirdgen, so I have an idea, but I would like to hear from someone who has tuned for trucks. I drive a 1995 ECSB with a 305 (soon to be 330 hp Crate GMPP 350), with 4L60 trans. I currently have K&N, Exhaust, 4.10 gears with 33's.First of all congratulations on diving into PROM tuning. Secondly, that is one serious piece of hardware you've got for a beginner but I feel that you left out one thing. I would recommend that you also get the G1 adapter from Moates so that you don't have to destroy your Memcal. The G1 adapter will allow you to keep your Memcal intact yet it bypasses the chip in the Memcal. I also highly recommend that you take it slow. Do not even attempt tuning in real time until you have a good grasp on things and how they work. Datalog, make small changes, burn a chip, then datalog the changes and so on. I cannot stress enough how easy it is to do serious engine damage if you are not careful. O.K., now that that is out of the way, onto constants. Start with the simple ones like the speed limiter and RPM limiter. Lower the limits just to make sure you are really making changes and to see what they do. The switches and constants are fairly straight forward and easily modified. Before you graduate to tuning high performance engines, master tuning a stock one. The last thing you want to do is melt an engine that you just spent some serious coin on. Happy tuning!

HaulnA$$,

I did purchase G1 adapter, forgot to mention that. Anyway, I know NOT to mess with fuel/spark tables right away. Until then, what would be some good reading material to look over that explains the tables and how they work. Also, how long do you think TBI parts will be around? I ask because it has been about 10 years since the last TBI truck rolled off the line. Thanks.

TBI parts will be around for a long time, there are too many of them out there (Camaros, Caprices, and trucks etc.) to be denied. As for reference material, I dont know your experience level so I will say to start with general TBI tuning stuff like this http://www.cfm-tech.com/GM_tbi_tuning_tips.htm , remember, it is still an engine and all of the old tuning and troubleshooting methods still apply. It is very easy to tune out a real mechanical problem with a chip or blame the chip when something else is wrong, I have done it myself. Once you got that down, check this out http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/ . The information is not specific to your PCM but it still applies. Also read all the info at http://www.customefis.com/ . Check out all the links pages at these sites and soak up as much as you can. There is a ton of information out there. Google searches work well too.

I love this rush of 94-95 tuners! I need to get the apu1!!!

I love this rush of 94-95 tuners! I need to get the apu1!!!

The APU1 fawkin rawks!!!!!!! :burn:

The APU1 fawkin rawks!!!!!!! :burn: :shutup: You gonna make me want to go spend some serious cash... My wife will drive to Spring, TX and kick your butt if I spend that much cash... :kidding: Congrats..

The APU1 fawkin rawks!!!!!!! :burn:
Amen bruthuh! Had mine for about 6 months. It has saved me countless hours of time. Craigs new Ostrich is pretty cool too if you already have a PROM burner and ALDL cable.

OK maybe we could get a group buy going?

Hey guys, when I'm trying to data log with tunerproRt do I need a .bin file loaded?? Or do I just need the adl file loaded and that's it? If so where can I find one for a BJYL?

Hey guys, when I'm trying to data log with tunerproRt do I need a .bin file loaded?? Or do I just need the adl file loaded and that's it? If so where can I find one for a BJYL?
I have most of the $0D .bins on the web but I dont have a copy of BJYL and BJYL is definetly $0D mask. I just uploaded a copy of BJYM to the Moates FTP site, should work perfect. There is also a couple of $0D .ecu files there as well. You can also find BJYL here ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_lib/16156930%2016197427%2016196395%200D%200E%2031/0D/ The changes from one broadcast code to the next are'nt worth worrying about. They are very very minor. I have never run TunerProRt without a .bin loaded so I am not sure about that but I don't see why you would need a .bin loaded. I also thought of one other thing to check to make the datalogging stuff work. In the Tools menu of TunerProRT in the Preferences tab, make sure you have the interface type in the ALDL tab set to "MAX232" instead of "AutoProm". HTH

:shutup: You gonna make me want to go spend some serious cash... My wife will drive to Spring, TX and kick your butt if I spend that much cash... :kidding: Congrats..

:LOL:

Dude, by looking at your truck, I can tell you have dumped way more then $400 into it(which is what I spent on the APU1, G1 Adapter with 2 chips, and USB card). Tell your wife I am sorry. I don't want her to come down here and :nutkick: me.

:LOL:

Dude, by looking at your truck, I can tell you have dumped way more then $400 into it(which is what I spent on the APU1, G1 Adapter with 2 chips, and USB card). Tell your wife I am sorry. I don't want her to come down here and :nutkick: me.
:lol: True, but I knew what I was doing on the other things. I'm new to this and to go out and drop $400 on something a know nothing about yet, plus playing around with a brand new motor. She would kill me. Once my warranty runs out on the new motor, then I'm going to look into chip burning. But for now I just want to do some datalogging.

I have most of the $0D .bins on the web but I dont have a copy of BJYL and BJYL is definetly $0D mask. I just uploaded a copy of BJYM to the Moates FTP site, should work perfect. There is also a couple of $0D .ecu files there as well. You can also find BJYL here ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/bin_lib/16156930%2016197427%2016196395%200D%200E%2031/0D/ The changes from one broadcast code to the next are'nt worth worrying about. They are very very minor. I have never run TunerProRt without a .bin loaded so I am not sure about that but I don't see why you would need a .bin loaded. I also thought of one other thing to check to make the datalogging stuff work. In the Tools menu of TunerProRT in the Preferences tab, make sure you have the interface type in the ALDL tab set to "MAX232" instead of "AutoProm". HTH Thanks I will try that out. I'm waiting on another cable right now, but I will try it out as soon as I get my cable. I do have the interface type set to MAX232. After doing some reading over at thirdgen, I going to play with my wifes computer some more. I don't think I had everythig turned off that I was suppose to, and it was competing with the usb port on the computer. I'm not giving up on this, I will get this to work...... :banghead:

Does anybody have any Datamaster datalogs they want to share? I just want to see if they look very far off from mine. In particular the idle spark reading, does anybody elses jump around? Or do I have something going on with my ESC module? I have programmed my spark tables around my idle areas, loaded and un-loaded, for a constant 25.5 and it still jumps around. FYI my idle spark map and off idle maps are identical.

Thanks in advance

Brian

Does anybody have any Datamaster datalogs they want to share? I just want to see if they look very far off from mine. In particular the idle spark reading, does anybody elses jump around? Or do I have something going on with my ESC module? I have programmed my spark tables around my idle areas, loaded and un-loaded, for a constant 25.5 and it still jumps around. FYI my idle spark map and off idle maps are identical.

Thanks in advance

BrianI dont have any web space so I can't post one here but I can e-mail it if you want. My Idle timing is rock solid but my engine is basically stock. I am going to assume that your timing table 5 Kpa above and at all Kpa's below where the engine idles and at 400, 600, and 800 at those same Kpa's are all set the same so that the table is flat at idle, below and slightly above. There are many factors that can make the timing "jump" at idle. The coolant spark table is one, the EGR spark table is another but from the .bin you sent me you've got that covered. Flattening the timing table all around idle should cure the jump. There are some other tables that are not broken out in TunerCat or TunerPro that may also affect an engine with a decent cam such as routines that will pull timing if the desired idle RPM cannot be maintained by the IAC motor but this usually symptomatic of a surging idle and from your datalog, this isn't happening. HTH

Just dropped some cash on a truck I don't even have running yet!

On my old '72 C10 I had retrofitted it with a TBI off of a 454 and made my own harness using a 1227747 ECM...

Well eventually I sold the engine out of it to a friend and parted out the rest...body was so rusty I didn't consider it a big loss, but I still kept the EFI harness for "someday" and that "someday" just came.

Found an Ochre and dark brown and moss colored '72 Cheyenne/20, 350, TH350, steel bed floor...overall not bad condition, a little rust in the rockers and cab corners but I can deal with that. Going to start by setting up the TBI on it again, but I bought some toys to spice up the power...

moates.net I bought the C1 flash and an Aries Zif socket cost me $21.85

www.xtronics.com I bought the Pocket Programmer II for $163 shipped

Ebay I bought an ALDL probe for $35

Basically my goal is to have 2 programs, one will be a "hellraiser" to go out and really suprise the hondas in the area, and the other will be an "economy" setting for the drive between my home and ames (a 520 mile round trip). The ALDL probe will be to datalog while in either mode and allow me to re-burn and make improvements.

ITS HERE!!!!!
I got my APU1 Auto Prom Package from Moates along with G1 adapter and chips. SWEEEEEEET!!!!!

HaulnA$$, did you get a TunerPro RT CD with yours, it did you have to get it offline?

ITS HERE!!!!!
I got my APU1 Auto Prom Package from Moates along with G1 adapter and chips. SWEEEEEEET!!!!!

HaulnA$$, did you get a TunerPro RT CD with yours, it did you have to get it offline?
I'm jealous!

Hey don't be jealous, I still have to figure out how to work all this stuff.

ITS HERE!!!!!
I got my APU1 Auto Prom Package from Moates along with G1 adapter and chips. SWEEEEEEET!!!!!

HaulnA$$, did you get a TunerPro RT CD with yours, it did you have to get it offline?I did not get a TunerPro CD with my APU1 but I did get a registration code. I downloaded TunerProRT from the website. I think their thinking is that you may or may not run TunerProRT with the unit as it is also compatible with TunerCatRT so why send a CD. When I got my APU1 there was no .ecu or .ads definitions to be able to use TunerProRT with the $0D mask until myself and a couple of other ambitious nuts developed them. I used TunerCatRT and Datamaster exclusively for the first couple of months until the definitions were finished (well not totally, but usable). Happy tuning! As I have said before, PROM tuning can be very addicting. Don't say I did'nt warn you. LOL

No problem. I have a definition (.ecu) for the $0D mask and an ALDL datastream definition (.ads) file as well as others if you want copies to try out TunerPro. TunerProRT has a built in scanner/datalogger and was designed for use with the AutoProm realtime emulator (which I use) to emulate/datalog simultaneously, but it will work as a standalone datalogger with a standard ALDL cable. Nice to be able to datalog and edit .bin's with one program, and the best part is it is free.
As for the Edelbrock MPFI, I agree it is not worth the money. You can do better just tuning your stock TBI setup. When I first started Prom tuning, I gained 35 RWHP and a much crisper throttle response and 3 MPG increase from a stock 350 TBI by doing nothing but Prom tuning. JMHO

Will the $0D work with a 305? Also, would you care if I could get .ecu and .ads from you. Better yet, I what else do I need to do? I have the hardware, and I have TunerProRT downloaded. What other files/definitions do I need in order to start datalogging/burning for 95 Chevy 305 TBI with 4L60-E tranny?? Thanks.

Will the $0D work with a 305? Also, would you care if I could get .ecu and .ads from you. Better yet, I what else do I need to do? I have the hardware, and I have TunerProRT downloaded. What other files/definitions do I need in order to start datalogging/burning for 95 Chevy 305 TBI with 4L60-E tranny?? Thanks.Yes it will work with the 305. The definitions are public. Go to http://www.moates.net/fileman/index.php?dir=3%29%20Binary%20Editor%20Definitions and download 0D v1_02.zip . This is the .ecu file. Then go to http://www.moates.net/fileman/index.php?dir=4%29%20Datastream%20Definitions and download 0D A217 Engine v1_0.zip . This is the .ads file for the engine data. The .ads file will have to be modified to work. In the ALDL dump command, change the 57 to 56. Everything else is good and this file is very complete. There is no transmission data .ads yet but it is on my list of things to do. When I finish it I will post it and upload it to share. These are the only files you need to get going. HTH

Yes it will work with the 305. The definitions are public. Go to http://www.moates.net/fileman/index.php?dir=3%29%20Binary%20Editor%20Definitions and download 0D v1_02.zip . This is the .ecu file. Then go to http://www.moates.net/fileman/index.php?dir=4%29%20Datastream%20Definitions and download 0D A217 Engine v1_0.zip . This is the .ads file for the engine data. The .ads file will have to be modified to work. In the ALDL dump command, change the 57 to 56. Everything else is good and this file is very complete. There is no transmission data .ads yet but it is on my list of things to do. When I finish it I will post it and upload it to share. These are the only files you need to get going. HTH

HaulnA$$ you rock! :head: Thanks. In fact, I thank everyone on this thread who have answered my questions, and responded to my emails. That includes HaulnA$$, Badburban, and 95nProgress. Thanks for not being stingy, and sharing this info. Go DIY!!!! :head: :happy:

Hey guys, while I'm waiting on my other ALDL cable to come in, I thought I would ask a few questions. First off, what OS systems are you guys running on your computers. I have heard alot of people have trouble with windows XP not to mention the add trouble of usb. Which is what's on my laptop. I thought about going here http://moates.net/gmecm/software.html and downloading the 98 OS on a boot disk. If I do this and run it on my laptop, it's not going to mess up anything on my (wife's teaching) laptop, is it? I thought about buying an older laptop, but if I can get this one to work I see no need.

Hey guys, while I'm waiting on my other ALDL cable to come in, I thought I would ask a few questions. First off, what OS systems are you guys running on your computers. I have heard alot of people have trouble with windows XP not to mention the add trouble of usb. Which is what's on my laptop. I thought about going here http://moates.net/gmecm/software.html and downloading the 98 OS on a boot disk. If I do this and run it on my laptop, it's not going to mess up anything on my (wife's teaching) laptop, is it? I thought about buying an older laptop, but if I can get this one to work I see no need.The link you posted is for Craig Moates old DOS based ALDL software for TPI systems (ECM852.zip), not TunerPro by Mark Mansur. I run XP on my 2 laptops and simultaneously run serial and USB datalogging stuff with absolutely no problems. I run TunerProRT in the emulate and ALDL modes together via the USB AutoProm and simultaneously run my LM-1 WBO2 in datalog mode on the serial port all the time. Talk about tuner heaven.....

The link you posted is for Craig Moates old DOS based ALDL software for TPI systems (ECM852.zip), not TunerPro by Mark Mansur. I run XP on my 2 laptops and simultaneously run serial and USB datalogging stuff with absolutely no problems. I run TunerProRT in the emulate and ALDL modes together via the USB AutoProm and simultaneously run my LM-1 WBO2 in datalog mode on the serial port all the time. Talk about tuner heaven..... Oh H*ll. Now that you mention that (old DOS) I remembered about it. Ok I will shut up for now.......until I get my cable. Thanks.

Ok, I know that with DIY tuning you CAN burn up an engine if you are not careful. So instead of asking how to tune the "Perfect Chip", what cautions do i need to consider so I don't burn my engine up? If you haven't guessed already, I am new to DIY EFI.

Ok, I know that with DIY tuning you CAN burn up an engine if you are not careful. So instead of asking how to tune the "Perfect Chip", what cautions do i need to consider so I don't burn my engine up? If you haven't guessed already, I am new to DIY EFI.Consider this. Engine runs too rich, you get poor performance and the frequent filler discount at your favorite filling station. Engine runs too lean, your laying down serious cash for engine parts. What I mean is be very careful when you play with WOT fuel. I must say that your stock O2 sensor cannot be trusted to read properly at WOT, they are designed to only be accurate at 14.7:1 AFR. I have proven this time and time again with a WBO2. I have seen a NBO2 report pig rich at WOT when in fact the engine was dangerously lean. Be careful. Tune WOT fuel on a dyno with an AFR probe or use a WBO2 or learn to read plugs. When playing with timing, go very slowly and use the least amount of timing necessary for best performance. Where timing is concerned, more is not better. Many tuners will adjust timing up until they trip the knock sensor, then back off a little. This is not the best aproach. The timing is right when the least amount of fuel produces the most power (i.e complete combutsion). Severe detonation (knock) can blow an engine in a second, mild detonation is like cancer. It kills slowly. Read alot, then read some more. Lastly, the same principles that applied to internal combustion engines 100 years ago still apply today. There is no magic. HTH

What is a WB02? NB02? I know those are oxygen sensors, but what do the prefix's mean? Also, when you say "learn to read plugs", is that a programming term??

About timing. I always thought that timing was the relationship between position of the piston and combustion or spark. Wouldn't burning the least amount of fuel while getting the most power have something to do with fuel tuning? I think I may be thinking bass ackerds on this. Please school me on this.

Oh yeah, and what is open and closed loop?

Would it be wise to tune spark before tuning fuel, or do those go hand in hand. What I mean is, if you change the spark tables, do you have to change the fuel tables also in accordance with the spark, or are they independent of each other?

What is a WB02? NB02? I know those are oxygen sensors, but what do the prefix's mean? Also, when you say "learn to read plugs", is that a programming term??

About timing. I always thought that timing was the relationship between position of the piston and combustion or spark. Wouldn't burning the least amount of fuel while getting the most power have something to do with fuel tuning? I think I may be thinking bass ackerds on this. Please school me on this."WBO2", WideBand Oxygen sensor, accurate from 8:1 to 20:1 AFR. "NBO2", Narrow Band Oxygen sensor, accurate only at the stoichiometric value of gasoline, 14.7:1 AFR. "learn to read plugs", learn to read spark plugs. They are the "window" to how your engine is running. They live in the combustion chamber where all the "good stuff" happens and are fairly easily accessable. Read properly, they can tell you exactly what is going on with your engine, even timing. As for timing, you are right in that fuel is a variable. It is all about giving the engine what it wants. The engine will make the most power when it can completely burn the largest fuel/air charge of the proper ratio and finish just when the piston has just entered the downstroke. The volume of the charge is constant but the ratio of fuel to air can change and different ratios burn at different speeds requiring different timing, but all of this only applies to maximum power. Tune for fuel efficiency or lowest emissions and the AFR gets leaner, requiring yet another timing strategy.
Oh yeah, and what is open and closed loop?
"Open loop", a mode of the PCM where fuel is controlled only by the values in the VE tables cells. "Closed loop", a mode of the PCM where O2 sensor feedback is used for dynamic fuel control at the stoichiometric ratio. HTH

Would it be wise to tune spark before tuning fuel, or do those go hand in hand. What I mean is, if you change the spark tables, do you have to change the fuel tables also in accordance with the spark, or are they independent of each other?
Tune fuel first (idle, BLM's, AE, and WOT), then timing. After you get the timing dialed in you will need to go back and fine tune the fuel tables. HTH

HaulnA$$,

Thanks for answering my questions. I replaced my O2 sensor a while ago. Mine is the more expensive 3 wire. How do I know if it is wide band or narrow band?

It is a NBO2. WBO2's have 5 or 7 wires, require a special controller to run them and are considreably more expensive. They are not widely used in OEM applications. GM computers do not support WBO2's.

It is a NBO2. WBO2's have 5 or 7 wires, require a special controller to run them and are considreably more expensive. They are not widely used in OEM applications. GM computers do not support WBO2's.

Okay,

I am starting to get a little discouraged here. I do not have access to a dyno or AFR probe. I don't have the cash right now for a WB02. I thought that when I when I threw down $400 for all the hardware/software I was set. That brings me to this. Is it hard to read plugs? Is that something I can do using the stuff I bought from moates?

I am determined to learn this stuff cuz hopefully by mid summer next year, I will have a custom built 330-350hp motor going under the hood. At the price of $3-3.5K, I want to know what I am doing.

Hauln, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :head:

Bryan

One other thing Haulin, you said that care needed to be taken when tuning for fuel at WOT. Does that mean even with the NB02 I can still tune for fuel at Idle, BLM's, and AE?

To any of you guys running a 95 chevy. What are you ALDL pin locations. I have 2 on top A&B, and 4 on bottom G,H,J, M. I'm pretty sure what G,H, & M are, but what is pin J for? It has a green wire coming from it. Thanks

One other thing Haulin, you said that care needed to be taken when tuning for fuel at WOT. Does that mean even with the NB02 I can still tune for fuel at Idle, BLM's, and AE?No reason to get discouraged yet. A NBO2 is good for idle and BLM's, fair for AE. Your seat of the pants buttmeter is o.k. for AE, a WBO2 is best. Before we had all these cool tools for tuning, we used our eyes, ears, nose, and reading spark plugs. Read this (http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/plug_cuts.html), it explains he basics of plug reading. How it works is like this. With new or slightly used plugs, make a WOT run, say at the dragstrip on test-n-tune night, and as soon as you cross the finish line, shut off the engine and coast to a safe area. Remove a few or all of the spark plugs, and inspect them. The way they look tells you how your engine is running. It can tell you how the timing and fuel are and more. The same applies to idle and light cruise. As I mentioned before, it is still an engine. It is just bieng controlled by an electronic box that replaced the carburetor and mechanical advance distributor. Treat it like an engine and not a computer and you will be fine.

LOWGREEN1, I do not know where thr GRN wire goes. I'm sure a GM service manual would have it but all I have is a Haynes manual. If you figure it out, let me know and I will put in my notes.

I found an Xtronix (don't think that is the right name). Anyway, it is WB02 and a controller for roughly $280.00. Is there any way this would work on my 95, or am I SOL as far as that gadget is concerned?

I found an Xtronix (don't think that is the right name). Anyway, it is WB02 and a controller for roughly $280.00. Is there any way this would work on my 95, or am I SOL as far as that gadget is concerned?The Zietronix ZT-2 which I'm assuming you are referring to, is a decent unit but the Innovate Motorsports LM-1 is better. This is the one I have. Either of these units will work for you but are not required. A WBO2 is just an accurate AFR meter (some such as the LM-1 and ZT-2 also have datalogging capabilities) that makes tuning easier. If you are only tuning one vehicle, it is probably not worth it. Many dyno facilities will rent tuning time on their chassis dyno's by the hour and have specials on this and give discounts to clubs. Ive seen prices vary fron $75/hr to $200/hr. With an AutoProm and a dyno with an AFR probe you can tune WOT fuel and timing in an hour if you know what tables to tweak and part throttle fuel and timing are tuned already. There are many guys who have successfully tuned their EFI setups without a WBO2. The tools you already have, logic, common sense, good notes, and proven time honored techniques are all that is required. If you are uncomfortable with plug reading, take the truck to the dyno. HTH

axisT6 you have mail....

LOWGREEN1, I was digging trough my documentation and found my ALDL data. Top row is FEDCBA and bottom is GHJKLM.
A = Black Ground
B = Green Diagnostic Terminal
C = Air Injection Reaction (pulled to ground)
D = SES lamp
E = Red Serial Data 150baud PWM
F = T.C.C. Pulled to ground
G = Yellow Fuel pump (+12v = on)
H =
J = T.C.C. Norm +5v Pulled to Ground?
K =
L =
M = Serial Data 8192baud

HaulnA$$, would you have any idea why the computer would pull out spark when no knocks are being registered?

Thanks

Brian

Hey Brain it's funny that you post that. I went to the dealer today and had the print me the page out of the factory service manual for my 95. This what I got today and it matches my truck. I'm not sure how you guys post the rows like you do but here goes the list. A: {blk/wht} (ECM ground) B: {wht/blk} (Diagnostic Enable Signal Powertrain) C: Empty D: Empty E: {org} (Serial Data Signal 160 buad) F: {Red} (Fuel Pump relay feed) G: {blk/wht} (Keyless Entry Program Enable Signal) H: {tan/wht} (Diagnostic Signal ABS) J: {Dk Grn} (E and C Diagnostic Signal) K: Empty L: Empty M: {Tan} (Serial Data Signal 8192 Buad Primary). This matches my truck perfect. I'm just not really sure what E and C Diagnostic Signal is???

HaulnA$$, would you have any idea why the computer would pull out spark when no knocks are being registered?

Thanks

BrianAre you talking about actual retard or just not seeing the timing you expect at a certain point. I like to pull up the "Knock Retard Alert" when I am viewing a datalog file. Sometimes you will see knock retard but it may not actually be severe enough to register a knock count. BTW, thanks for the ALDL stuff.

Hauln,
I am talking about actual retard, using the "knock retard alert" on datamaster. I am occasionally getting spark retard around 4400rpm but datamaster is not logging a knock. I was just wondering if there were any other tables that gave spark retard. I do see that the "Cool compensation spark vs load" could possibly do it, but the temp that these are occuring has no spark change in this table. It is good to know that it is possible to get spark retard but it may not register a knock count. Thanks for the help.

BTW I am still searching for my occasional miss/rough idle. I have replaced my 02 sensor, PVC vlave and have made sure my TurboCity airflow enhancer is seating to the top of the TBI properly, and still have the idle problem. I feel this idle problem has something to do with my spark jumping around at idle. I am going to try bypassing my MSD box today and see what that does.

Brian

95nProgress, I don't know of anything that will actually show up as "retard" other than knock sensor activity, which does not always register a knock count. The PCM will "retard" timing on any knock sensor activity. I suspect your idle is hunting from your cam . There are routines that will add and subtract (not retard) timing and move the IAC motor in order to maintain the "desired" idle RPM so the idle stays smooth. You might try upping your targeted idle RPM's by 50 or 100 or so or if that doesn't work, try opening the butterflies a little (be sure to note your TPS voltage before adjustment reset the TPS to this voltage after tweaking the butterflies), make a note of how far you turn the screw so you can put it back if need be. Look at some of the different flag data other than the defaults in your logs during idle. This may prove beneficial. HTH

Hauln,
I did alot of troubleshooting today. Since my map sensor and spark control module were both the original units(138k miles), I got some new ones. First I replaced the map sensor along with the hose to the TBI, still same idle. Second, I replaced the spark control module, still same idle. Then I bypassed my MSD box and still same idle. I then re-routed my plug wires and still had idle problem.
I know what you mean about the cam possibly causing the idle and have raised the idle from stock 525 to 725. I will definately try adjusting the butterflies because I was messing with them also today and noticed that the spark and idle smooth out at about 1000rpm. I really hope that I don't have to set my idle at 1000rpm! (I still have the stock stall converter!)
I am having a hard time swallowing the cam being the cause of this idle problem. My idle was like this before I did the heads and cam mostly when the outside temp was above 90deg. I also have a friend that had the same year truck(95) and his did it too. Since the heads and cam it seems to do it all the time now. It is not bad, just not smooth, ah heck, it could be the cam.
I have heard that a worn out distributor could cause something like this have you heard anything like this and if so could you elaborate? I hope that I am not wearing you out. I can't say how much you help me here, thank you!

Brian

Hauln,
....I know what you mean about the cam possibly causing the idle and have raised the idle from stock 525 to 725. I will definately try adjusting the butterflies because I was messing with them also today and noticed that the spark and idle smooth out at about 1000rpm. I really hope that I don't have to set my idle at 1000rpm! (I still have the stock stall converter!)
I am having a hard time swallowing the cam being the cause of this idle problem. My idle was like this before I did the heads and cam mostly when the outside temp was above 90deg. I also have a friend that had the same year truck(95) and his did it too. Since the heads and cam it seems to do it all the time now. It is not bad, just not smooth, ah heck, it could be the cam....

BrianEvery time you mess with the butterflies, you need to turn the ignition off, then back on, if you don't, the PCM thinks you have your foot on the accellerator. Cycling it re-establishes the 0 percent TPS position. Ideally, you want 0 percent TPS at .54 volts. I looked up your cam and it has an LSA of 110, which is good for performance, but more difficult to tune at idle, but not impossible. The valve overlap from the tight LSA is putting fresh O2 in the exhaust, which fools your O2 sensor into thinking it is lean when it isn't. Another thing to try is to force "open loop" by cranking the closed loop min temp to max. Look at your O2 voltages and tune for around 550-600 mV (O2 thinks it is rich, but it is not). If this smooths out the idle, then the rich/lean O2 thresholds need to be adjusted richer at idle, then re-enable closed loop. As for the distributor, it is usually the gear that wears out. That is easy to check, but I doubt that is your problem. HTH

Hey Brian, when you find out your problem let me know, because as you know i'm having the same problem on my new motor. I have changed every sensor and checked or replaced about everything I can think of and still no luck. Mine is stumbling at idle whether it's hot or cold. It's a random stumble, meaning it doesn't do it all the time just certain days. It does it everyday, just certain times I start it up it's not there and sometimes it's really bad. It never dies but it's cutout a few times I thought it was going to a stop light. I don't think mines spark related I think mines more of a fuel/injector/electrical problem. When mine cuts out I can hear the left injector actually make a slight popping noise like it has a air bubble, and that's when my motor will stumble. Fuel pressure is right on, no leaks, injectors have been changed 2 times, TBI/ regulator has been gone through and rebuilt.. I just can't think of anything else to check, that's why I'm wanting to get this datalogging to work, to see if I can see anything going on with a sensor or something. Other than the stumbling at idle, the motor runs as happy as a fat girl in a dount line.. :D

LOWGREEN1,

Are you still looking for a copy of the 0099BJYL.BIN? If so let me know I have a copy that I can email you. I will upload to moates when time permits.

New too the board here, But I've been burnin chips and other "stuff" for quite a few years now. It's good to see some familiar names out there.

89350STRO

....New too the board here, But I've been burnin chips and other "stuff" for quite a few years now. It's good to see some familiar names out there.

89350STROWelcome to FSC! Do I know you? That name sounds kinda familiar. Maybe I have you confused with some other dude that I worked with on the $0D .ecu. Anyway, I'll take a copy of BJYL. I have BJYK and BJYM and am looking for a complete bowl of GM BCC alphabet soup.

LOWGREEN1,

Are you still looking for a copy of the 0099BJYL.BIN? If so let me know I have a copy that I can email you. I will upload to moates when time permits.

New too the board here, But I've been burnin chips and other "stuff" for quite a few years now. It's good to see some familiar names out there.

89350STRO Yes. Just email it to lowgrn1@AOL.com. Thank you very much. BTW Welcome to the boards here. Hopefully we can get a great following here, to share some valuable info. And HaulnA$$ you know him check this link out... http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=229222 :D

HaulinA$$,

Yea ya know me from several boards, Moates, Thirdgen and probably others if they have anything to do with chippin!! We worked on the $0D stuff.

All,

Here is a list of $0D BIN's that I have just let me know if ya need any of them!!

Code_________Year___Model__Engine____Trans______PCM

BJLH___________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BJYL___________95______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16197427
BDWM__________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16168625
BHMX__________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BHMY__________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BHMZ__________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BHNA__________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Aut0____16196395
BJLF___________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BJLH___________94______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16196395
BJYA___________95______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16197427
BJYB___________95______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16197427
BJYK___________95______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16197427
BJYM___________95______C10____L05/5.7____M30/Auto____16197427

89350STRO

Hey guys I have (probably) a stupid question, but if I really needed to, Could I run a serial cable inside my house to my desktop computer and run TunerPro RT with my desktop computer? Or would the data tansfer be messed up with that long of a cable?

HaulinA$$,

Yea ya know me from several boards, Moates, Thirdgen and probably others if they have anything to do with chippin!! We worked on the $0D stuff.

89350STRODude, I was kidding! Of course I remember. BTW I am turning as many people as I can on to the $0D stuff. I figure the more that get involved, the more we will all learn.

Ya never know, when you reach my age, lots of things begin to fail. Know what I mean??

Did ya get the file, I had to resend it zipped? I used an email I had from a while back.

There seems to be an interest in $0D over at TGO as well.

89350STRO

Got the file. I have been telling anyone who would listen at TGO for years how great our PCM's are. I'm glad they are finally coming around. Of all the OBDI ECM's/PCM's I have seen, ours is by far the best. Has all the best of the best stufff. Peak/hold drivers, tranny control, 8192 baud etc., etc. Now maybe we can get a lot more people involved.

Got the file. I have been telling anyone who would listen at TGO for years how great our PCM's are. I'm glad they are finally coming around. Of all the OBDI ECM's/PCM's I have seen, ours is by far the best. Has all the best of the best stufff. Peak/hold drivers, tranny control, 8192 baud etc., etc. Now maybe we can get a lot more people involved.

One problem. We can't control boost.
Makes me want to :puke: :damnit:

One problem. We can't control boost.Not yet. There is no reason the boost code from the 1227749 ECM can't be incorporated to our PCM. The hardware will definetly support it from what I can tell. It is for projects like this that we need more interested people.

Not yet. There is no reason the boost code from the 1227749 ECM can't be incorporated to our PCM. The hardware will definetly support it from what I can tell. It is for projects like this that we need more interested people.

I'm here to help. I programed asm in motorola ucs and dsps before. I can't imagine it would be that different. Could u provide links to appropiate hacks (i.e., the 749 and the 16197427)?

I can send ya what I've got or you can get most of the stuff from craig moates at the following address.

Knowledge is Power!! The more people we can instill with knowledge the more powerfull this $0D stuff will become.

http://www.moates.net/fileman/

89350STRO

Hey I'm now a preferred vendor for diagnoistic cables (and soon to be other stuff as well). If you'd like one, check o