bio diesel

[2000sierra1500]

bio diesel, any comments

[Quyonmob]

Interesting topic, I hope the soy producers chime in.

[yngbld32]

smells like McDonalds fries

[Quyonmob]

If it is constituted of recycled fryer oil, yes it does. Lots of the new biodiesels use new (as in not recycled) agriculturally produced oil products.

[Frankenbiker]

bio diesel, any comments

I've ran it a couple of times... I'll buy it if it's available and not too far out of the way to go get...

Mind you, that's the commercially-produced, soy-based biodiesel.

Even if I could find someone who HAD 200 gallons of used cooking oil to run, I'd not do it. While a diesel engine will run acceptably well on un-processed cooking oil, doing that leads to problems down the line, which are neither cheap nor easy to deal with.

Specifically, the unprocessed oil generates a lot of carbon deposits (called "coking") on the cylinder head and piston crown, unacceptably raising compression and blowing out the head gasket(s). Not to mention that the smell is something that some folks find objectionable.

But commercially-produced biodiesel is all but indistinguishable from petroleum-based diesel fuel. At least that's my experience.

Major chain truckstops have been somewhat reluctant to "buy into" the biodiesel phenomenon, largely because it more or less requires a separate storage and delivery system (or the segregation of existing facilities) unless they convert their entire operation over to biodiesel. And in the quantities most Truckstops sell diesel, converting over and selling that much overwhelms the nearly-nonexistent "local" biodiesel production capability.

-blaine

[Pete-FWA]

Doesn't a true biodiesel system filter those contaminants before burning them?

I've read different articles that claim different things on that topic.

I have also read to never run the used oil biodiesel unless your engine is properly set up for this.

Anyone run it or know about the filtering systems?

[FlareSide]

I think biodiesel is great! My auto tech teacher uns it in his PowerStroke all the time, with no problems. The thing is though, is that he makes his own. He will ask restaurants for used fryer grease, and produce his fuel from it. Its great stuff, twice the flah point of regular diesel, almost twice the lubricity, and lower emissions. I;ve made some myself for him to try in his truck, and it ran great. He hasnt had problems with carbon build up yet. I'm not sure if he will or not.

[dozerboy]

There is nothing wrong with it except that it gels at a real low temp I would like to make my own to run.

[FlareSide]

Most diesel fuel usually gel at a low temp anyways, maybe just not as bad.

[red suburban]

i made my own when i had an 89 f250, no problems and made well over 300 gallons. the only way you get problems are if you dont filter the oil and wash it multiple times. on my processor i ran the oil after it had mixed with the methanol/lye for 1 hour. let it settle for 2 days, drain the glycerine, filter again for another hour. let settle again for 1 day, drain glycerine, wash, drain water/soaps, filter again, then put in truck.

ps... i ran my biodiesel through the winter as well, works perfectly fine with your regular diesel degelling stuff.

[Kenny C]

http://www.azurebiodiesel.com/ (http://www.azurebiodiesel.com/)

[HemiHunter]

A small trucking outfit my father does a lot of work with just switched over to it comletely,they have 3 big rigs and a cummins powered Dodge they run it in and have had no problems. they make it themselves and have had really good luck. He said it saves them a ton on fuel costs

[1toncrew]

anyone use azurebiodiesel's stuff? My wife is a chef and they have hundreds of gallons of canolla oil. They switch the oil every 2 days. It sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[red suburban]

i'd do it, the more often the oil is changed the better (much less water and other contaminants).

[Bullwinkle]

If you read the owners manual (on a new truck), it specifically says NOT to run biodiesel.

I don't think it said why, but if it says so in the owners manual, that's good enough for me.

[red suburban]

only american brands say that for some odd reason. both japanese and european manufacturers say in their owners manual that biodiesel is either ok or recommended. i think the main reason that the big 3 say that is because its a fairly new technology here in the US. alot of times they will void your warrenty for other things such as a chip, but that is beneficial as well.

[89stroker]

www.biodiesel.org

they have a lot of good info.

[dozerboy]

If you read the owners manual (on a new truck), it specifically says NOT to run biodiesel.

I don't think it said why, but if it says so in the owners manual, that's good enough for me.

You have nothing to worry about.

[Frankenbiker]

If you read the owners manual (on a new truck), it specifically says NOT to run biodiesel.

I don't think it said why, but if it says so in the owners manual, that's good enough for me.

What they don't want you doing is running unprocessed veggie oil.

Commercially prepared biodiesel is not a problem.

-blaine

[GetMore]

There are three types of "alternative" fuels for diesel engines, SVO, WVO, and biodiesel.

SVO is straight vegetable oil. TYpically Canola oil.
WVO is waste vegetable oil. This is just used fry oil.
Biodiesel is made by processing SVO or WVO. (Actually they can make it from algae as well.)

Even biodiesel made from SVO will make the exhaust smell like fries.

WVO is usually free, but does need to be filtered, and it will build up deposits in the combustion chamber and injectors. It is very thick, so it will need to be heated to run in most vehicles. The filters and heating equipment, along with the possible maintenance required can add to the cost.

SVO is more expensive and due to it's viscosity, it too needs to be heated in most vehicles. It also can cause deposits to build up i n the combustion chamber and injectors. Due to the lack of contaminants it makes for a better fuel than WVO, but the cost and maintenance required offset most of the gains.

Biodiesel is actually what diesel engines were originally designed to run on. Rudolph Diesel, a German inventor, made an engine that would run on a renewable resource that was available in Germany. Since they have no oil fields they had to import all their petroleum products. An industrial nation is dependent on petroleum, so an engine that ran on peanut oil could reduce their dependency.

Anyway, biodiesel is vegetable oil that has be processed to remove the fats and just leave the esters behind. These make up the fuel part of the oil. The viscosity is almost equal to that of diesel, though it does gel at a lower temperature. IIRC it is 20 degrees. A diesel/biodiesel mixture will gel at lower temps, the higher the diesel concentration, the lower the gel point.

Biodiesel is environmentally safe, spills will break down on their own, so leaks will not contaminate the soil. It does not actually add CO2 to the air, since the plants pulled that Carbon out of the air when they grew. IIRC soy-based fuel will add some NOx, because soybeans hold onto some of the Nitrogen from the soil. The other beans used for oil don't do this, so some biodiesels reduce NOx emissions, while some increase it about 10%.

Biodiesel is a good fuel system cleaner. If there is stuff built up in the tank and lines it can break it free and clog the fuel filter. If your vehicle has 100,000 miles on it and you start running pure BD in it you might run into this problem. If you use lower concentrations and slowly build up to pure you should be okay. Some people run a cheap, disposable filter before their main filter because of this.

BD is also a better lubricant than regular diesel.

Government testing has shown that a 2% mixture of BD in regular diesel (known as B2) improves the lubricity, cetane rating, and emissions as well as dropping the smoke level. B2 is also safe to run in place of regular diesel without making any changes.

[02hoe]

I ran several tanks of it without problems. I was not running 100% bio though it was more like 75% bio and 25% #2. I did not see a mileage increace or any real benefit from running it. Back to #2

[red suburban]

its very true about fuel filters though, i went through at least 5 or 6 within a few months, after that i didnt have any problems.

[1toncrew]

[QUOTE=GetMore]There are three types of "alternative" fuels for diesel engines, SVO, WVO, and biodiesel.

SVO is straight vegetable oil. TYpically Canola oil.
WVO is waste vegetable oil. This is just used fry oil.
Biodiesel is made by processing SVO or WVO. (Actually they can make it from algae as well.)

Even biodiesel made from SVO will make the exhaust smell like fries.

WVO is usually free, but does need to be filtered, and it will build up deposits in the combustion chamber and injectors. It is very thick, so it will need to be heated to run in most vehicles. The filters and heating equipment, along with the possible maintenance required can add to the cost.

So if you process the wvo using one of these do it yourself machines such as azurebiodiesel's kit, you wont have the problems mentioned in the paragraph above?

[dozerboy]

Correct

[1toncrew]

just gotta convince the wife to drop 3 g's :nono:
So what is involved to make ok to run this stuff. I know youy have to switch fuel lines. Is that just the rubber and not the hard lines? Is there anything on or in the engine that will need modification? It's a 6.5 T.D. Very interested being I use this truck(89 CC v3500) for about everything I do and 3.11 a gal. is kicking my tail.

Also If im down to say 4 or gal. left in the tank of bio and need to fill up, will regular diesel be ok to put in?

[red suburban]

biodiesel and petroleum diesel will mix with no side effects, its even sold at the pump (if they do in your area) in certain mixes (20/80, 50/50, 100). you will need to replace your rubberfuel lines, but the metal parts are no problem. i made my own processor (an appleseed version) for about 300-350 bucks. consisted of:
1. water heated from the local metal scrap yard (10 bucks)
2. pump, 25
3. about 4-5 valves
4. around 10 ft of 3/4" steel pipe (NOT GALVANIZED!!!! the biodiesel will pick up the zinc in the pipe and carry it into your engine, leaving it deposited in the cylinders, similar to what happens if you use a gasoline fuel tank in your diesel truck)
5. 2 new heater elements (i bought the 120v versions because that was the only outlets i had available where i had mine plugged in)
6. 2 50 gallon oil drums (5 bucks each) one for the restaurant, the other in the truck bed.
7. second pump (to pick up the oil at the restaurant) that runs off of a 12 volt system (150, most expensive part of my system)

[GetMore]

02Hoe, you will not see a mileage increase. As a matter of fact, there can be as much as a 10% decrease, though that is extreme. Biodiesel does have a lower BTU content. The higher cetane and lubricity usually counteract that, so the typical range is 0-5% drop in economy.

1toncrew, I wouldn't bother buying the prebuilt processor. You can make your own for about 10% the cost, as red suburban mentions. Once you have the system up and running you will find that the methanol is the most expensive ingredient, but if you use a heater and a cooling loop you can recover most of the methanol and reuse it. Removing the methanol from the byproduct leaves you with glycerin. You can use the glycerin as soap or fertilizer, or as a parts cleaner. It's also biodegradable, so it is safe.

Boidiesel will eventually eat rubber lines, but there are lines out there that are compatible. I just can't think of the material offhand. I know that VW changed their lines and seals to this material in the early 90's, so my '97 Passat is ready for biodiesel.

[Scrufdog]

GM switched to synthetic fuel lines in the early 90's, safe for biodiesel.

[red suburban]

the general rule on the fuel line replacement is if the truck is 96 or newer the lines are fine if 95 or older they need to be replaced. GetMore is right about methanol being the expensive part of the equation down the road, but its still not even close to buying fuel at the pump. before i made my methanol recovery system i was spending about 75 cents a gallon, after the methanol system, 40-45 cents.

[skivhere]

before i made my methanol recovery system i was spending about 75 cents a gallon, after the methanol system, 40-45 cents.

One of the guys at work was telling me about his dad using the biodiesel in his Dodge. He makes it at home and it costs him about 60 cents/ gallon.

Wish I had a diesel...I would convert my whole garage into a biodiesel refinery...prolly against the law in my area, but oh well!! Ahhh...to have cheap fuel again!

[GetMore]

Here is a link to a site selling processor kits, cheap to outrageously expensive: http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/

Many people set up the processor in their garage. I'd be very careful if I did that, since methanol is very flammable. You just have to take the proper precautions.

[the moose]

http://dieselpowermag.com/videos/

interesting interviews on biodiesel ... just to stimilate conversation a little

[Lurius]

As for the geling, this is why they usually run a heater system in true biodiesel systems. A great place to get the oil is potatoe chip frying plants, it is supposed to be some fo the cleanest.

-Lurius

[red suburban]

i set up my processor outdoors in the shade and kept the methanol over where i kept the other flamible liquids like the gasoline and oil, far away from sparks/electricity.

[1toncrew]

so how do you get some of the methanol back?

[dozerboy]

never mind

[red suburban]

have to set up a system consisting of 2 tanks, one with the glycerine byproduct and the other empty (at first), that are sealed except for a hose up at the top. heat up the 1st tank that has all of the glycerine in it until a vapor starts to come out of the top (the methanol). the methanol will go to the top of the tank, through the hose into the other tank, the cool and liquify. you dont get all of your methanol back, but i'd say about half of it, maybe a little more.

[Big Angry]

You have nothing to worry about.
Unless you have warranty issues and you got some in your tank, most dealers are gonna say bye bye. I personally wouldn't do it, but that is my preference.

[the moose]

Unless you have warranty issues and you got some in your tank, most dealers are gonna say bye bye. I personally wouldn't do it, but that is my preference.

just do it after warranty is over.

[GetMore]

Unless you have warranty issues and you got some in your tank, most dealers are gonna say bye bye. I personally wouldn't do it, but that is my preference.

Use B20 or lower and don't tell the dealer, and you should be fine.

I don't advocate lying to the dealer if you do something to damage the vehicle, but B20 will not do any damage, while they might decide to claim it is the culprit.

In other words, just don't give them an easy excuse to deny the warranty.

[95stroked1500]

Removing the methanol from the byproduct leaves you with glycerin. You can use the glycerin as ........

nitro..... :eek:

[calirider]

So running WVO will ruin a motor over time? Is there a way to still use all WVO and filter it to make it ok for a motor? I have heard of many people running WVO for 50,000 miles +

[GetMore]

Nice crosspost Cali. The simple answer is no.