Thinking about a diesel

[PerfectReign]

In looking at the Silverado/Sierra, I noticed a lot of peeps glowing (no pun intended) about their diesel engines. In fact, I was reminded of my old dentist who had bought a 6.5 suburban way back when to tow his two show cars. (’48 packard and ’57 bel air) He used to talk about how much better the truck was than the gas version, which he had previous.

Okay, I’m almost sold. Sounds like the LBZ engine is what I’d be getting, right?

I first looked at the gmbuypower site to see what the sierra was when configured with the Duramax. It showed only a 6 speed manual transmission available for the truck. I then checked out the Chevy specs and found they offer either the four-speed or six speed automatic tranny.

Does anyone know if the GMC truck has an optional automatic tranny? I’d be also curious why the difference.

I’ve always liked the idea of diesel, especially if I can get biodiesel and still utilize the extra 300 ft/lbs of torque over a gas engine yet still expect 200,000+ miles out of the engine. What are your opinions for someone who will be using the truck as a daily driver and only doing light towing? Is the diesel worth it over the gas engine? I noticed that on this forum and on thedieselpageforums people seem to get about the same mileage with the Duramax as with the 5.3 Vortec. That is an incentive, since I’d be getting the same mileage with way more power.

Also, is there a problem finding mechanics who can work on these engines? I would wonder how many are available for down the road. I’m curious, too, if the new fuel will be an issue. I have been reading about new low sulphur fuel coming out. Is there going to be a conversion needed?

One final question – I’m in southern California where it can get very warm:
http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/15

Diesels like this, right? IIRC, diesels do better in the heat than gas engines. Is there a problem running diesels in semi desert areas? I haven’t test driven a duramax Silverado/Sierra yet but plan to very soon.

[K5Fury]

I can maybe answer some of your question. Diesel do get better mileage than gasser but only slighty unloaded. If you are pulling then that is when the really big mileage difference comes in. A diesel for a daily driver that only gets used occasionaly to tow would last forever. As with any vehicle the less strain on it the better off it is. The new fuel will not have any affect on current diesels. However, '07 diesels cannot run on the diesel being produced right now. Think of it when we went from leaded to unleaded. Get the Allison transmisson and don't look back! Warmer climates are fine for diesels and you won't have near as long a wait for the glow plugs to warm. Hard to say about diesel mechanics in your area, best advice is to get the yellow pages out and look around. Once you buy one, you will be hooked!

[red suburban]

the older diesels got much better gas mileage (6.2/6.5) and the potential for over 25mpg with a 6.2 in a 4x4 truck. power, no argument there, diesels kick ass. worth it? yes. ease of finding mechanics? all the chevy/gmc dealerships would be able to work on it, smaller shops around town you would have to ask. dont be afraid to go to a heavy duty diesel shop for engine repairs or inspections of a problem you might have (like a cat, cummins, detroit dealers/repair shops). they might be willing to work on your engine problem, just depends on their manager.

[dozerboy]

Most likely you would get a LBZ.
There is a 6 speed manual and auto, but the manual is detuned to 310HP.
Finding a stealer with a good diesel tech can be a problem, but IMO finding a good stealer tech period isn't easy. Depending where you are in Socal there are few very good diesel performance shops that I know of off hand.
Diesel can get overheated just like gassers.

[eo2159]

Will your diesel over heat No unless your pulling over 10,000 pounds over the grapevine haulin butt. Maybe not even then. And yes auto come in chevy or gmc. I just went from a 03 chevy Z71 with 5.3 and let me tell you power is night and day pulling or not and I'm running 38' tires. As far as mileage I can get 17-19 per gallon if I drive normal witch is hard, due to lots of power.

PROS...
1.better mileage
2. more initial power and torque
3. alot easier and cheaper to get even more power
4. allison trans almost bulletproof if power upgrades stay under 100 hp
5. if you go bigger lift and tires no need to regear uless over 38' tires (in my opinon)due to power
6.longevity of duramax diesel engines, tend to last twice as long as gas due to be able to make same or more power at half the RPM
7.no smog test (as of now)
8. Resale value alot better than gas
9.being able to smoke countless Ricers with a 6,000 lb truck
10.always having a grin on your face while driving


CONS.....
1.not as easy to find diesel as gas is
2.will spit some smoke if getting on the pedal
3.may get more speeding tickets pulling or not
4. uncontrolable urge to mod for more power
5. uuuhhhhhh well thats all the cons I can think of, basicly get the duramax you won't regret it.

Remember this is just my opinion

[dozerboy]

4. allison trans almost bulletproof if power upgrades stay under 100 hp



Not with the LBZ

[PerfectReign]

Thank you, everyone, for the well-written and informative replies.

I went out and test drove a 4x2 Silverado Crew Cab 2500 short bed with the 6600 and the Allison transmission. Here are my thoughts:

1. The truck idles rougher and sounds a bit harsher than the gas version at standstill. (I drove the Silverado and sierra 5.3L gas versions a few weeks ago.) Once I got going, however, the truck became both smoother and quieter than the gas versions. Go figure. At cruising speeds, the truck was noticeably quieter than the gas version.

2. The truck suspension was a bit stiffer than I’d like. I’m guessing that could be fixed aftermarket without a problem. It is obviously designed as a heavy-duty truck, hence the HD. I talked to a buddy who has a Yukon XL and he had some suspension work done. I’ll bug him later on.

3. The power was amazing! I didn’t floor it, but I noticed that the truck didn’t even flinch when I wanted it to get up and go. It just responded exactly how I needed it to. This is something I always noticed being an issue on GM trucks, including my old Jimmy. There was always a lag before the truck would lumber into the correct speed. In addition, I’d always felt the transmissions were “slow” to downshift. Not this truck. I can foresee me needing to get a radar detector for this truck. I definitely did not get the “big truck” feel driving it. Unfortunately, traffic was heavy on the freeway, so I didn’t get over 50 MPH and therefore didn’t test the sixth gear.

4. Turning and handling were exactly as I expected. Just like the gas Silverado/Sierras.

5. Starting it up was a breeze. From a cold start, the thing was ready to rumble in a few seconds. It had been sitting on the lot all day, so started from cold without a problem. (Of course, it is about 90 degrees here today.)

IOTW, I’m seriously considering the diesel over the gas version. There are plenty of shops around here where diesel is sold. I am guessing this has the 26 gallon fuel tank, which should be handy. (I seem to remember my grandfather filling up two tanks on his ‘70s –era Chevy truck.)

Again, thanks for all your help. I’ll update once I actually get the truck, which may not be until the end of the year. I’m saving up my GM Card right now. I have some construction to do around the house, and am going to charge it all to the card. That should help offset the cost of the diesel. :gone2far:

[K5Fury]

Diesel's have come a long way in the noise department. They will probably rattle at idle forever because of their very high compression ratio. But like you said they are pretty quiet once they get going. Also you said you didn't get up to highway speed but another beauty of the diesel is it will never downshift going up a hill----ever. Unless of course your pulling a big load.

[dozerboy]

It the suspension really bothers you don't count on much of a fix new tire, shocks, and 1/2 ton springs help but that’s it there is no real cure yet. It has a lot to do with the wheel base of the truck and the frame.

[PerfectReign]

It the suspension really bothers you don't count on much of a fix new tire, shocks, and 1/2 ton springs help but that’s it there is no real cure yet. It has a lot to do with the wheel base of the truck and the frame.

Well, bringing the truck to a 1/2 ton range is exactly what I would want. Thanks for the input. I'm not looking to turn the truck into a car-ride, just a little less stiff.

I just got my new Motor Trend magazine today and they had a quick rundown of the '07 Silverado/Sierra lineup. In the article, they mentioned nothing about there being a diesel powerplant. Odd.

I think it wil be good to get an '06/'07 classic as the prices will be right, IMO.

[dozerboy]

From what others have said you won't get it to ride like a 1/2 ton at least with the mods I listed above.

[PerfectReign]

From what others have said you won't get it to ride like a 1/2 ton at least with the mods I listed above.

Again, thank you. I went during lunch today and drove again the new '07 Avalanche LTZ. Nice truck! It was very smooth and "cushy" over the same road as the 2500. I'm gonna have to take my wife out and see what she thinks. Though I'm hooked onto the idea of diesel - 600 ft/lbs of torque vs. 350 ft/lbs - I'm going to have to pay attention to who will be driving with me. She used to hate my 4x4 when we went over bumps and whatnot.

Decisions, decisions...

[johndeerrm]

next time you try a 2500 check to see what the pressure in the tires is at. Chances are the dealer has it cranked up to max (80psi) based on what the door says. Lower it to 60-65 and the ride will improve.

[northface]

another thing that might help the ride is weight in the bed I got one of these for traction but it helped out the ride also

http://www.shurtrax.com/index.asp

[rockme2]

First Diesls are cool. Keep in mind that the 07 trucks are getting the DoD (4 cyl. shut down at Highway speeds and at stop lights) which will help with MPG, just not sure how much it will help. I have an 06 5.3 CC 1500 and get 19.5 on the high way with a K&N replacement air filter and a Fold-a-cover on the bed @ 70-73 keeping it under 2000RPM at all times.

[Yamsi401]

Don't think - DO!!!

[PerfectReign]

Don't think - DO!!!

LOL! Well...

...based on a friend's recommendation, I'm now leaning more towards the '07 Avalanche. Sigh...so many choices! If only I could get the AV with a duramax.

[dozerboy]

I wasn’t trying to talk you out of a Dmax just giving my .02, also airing down and weight don't help a lot I have run my rears as low as 45psi and have at least 500lbs. in the bed.

LOL! Well...

...based on a friend's recommendation, I'm now leaning more towards the '07 Avalanche. Sigh...so many choices! If only I could get the AV with a duramax.


I went through the same thing I picked a diesel for the longevity, power, and resale. I had concerns about "bugs" in the DOD on the 5.3, also water leaks, and bed size. I have no regrets I love my Dmax.

[PerfectReign]

Um, yeah - water leaks. For the what? Ten days it rains around here? :)

Seriously - valid points. I just gassed up my wife's '05 Vue today next to a guy who has an '03 Avalanche. He's got 150K miles and is happy with it. I then saw a guy with a 6.5 Suburban. He's also very happy. Go figure.

It is a tough decision. I'll have to drive the 2500 again. They're not easy to find!!

[PerfectReign]

(replying to my own post....)

I wonder what the difference between the Chevy and the GMC is?

I think a lunchtime trip to the GMC dealer is in store for tomorrow.

[Yamsi401]

It is a tough decision. I'll have to drive the 2500 again. They're not easy to find!!

In Texas you can't throw a dead Armadillo without hitting a dealership with an excess amount of 2500 and 3500 Diesels!

[PerfectReign]

In Texas you can't throw a dead Armadillo without hitting a dealership with an excess amount of 2500 and 3500 Diesels!

ROTFLMAO!!

Maybe I should pack up and move to Texas. Can't even find an armadillo here in California. (Just heard an Owl out my window though.)

Seriously, the sister and brother-in-law of one of my co-workers, just traded their SoCal dairy farm for one in Texas. IIRC, they had 60 acres here and traded it for around 2000 acres there. Sounds nice!

[Yamsi401]

Are Diesels even legal to register in the People's Republic of California? I've read the Jeep's new 3.0 Diesel Grand Cherokee might be shut out of the California market. Too bad, today's Diesels emit less particulates than gas engines? If they are then get with an internet dealership, fly to Texas, buy the truck and then drive it home.

I bought a Jeep once in Austin (about 3 hours away) because it was the best deal. Made the deal via email, never met a salesman and just went there and drove my Jeep home. Almost did the same when truck shopping recently, a great deal was being offered in New Mexico (eBay motors is worth looking in to) but then GM had kicked in real good sales incentives here in Texas and got my truck right at invoice + $500 with the Nerf bars, brake controller and a 5 year/100,000 mile extended warranty.

[dozerboy]

Every stealer I have gone to had at least one Dmax sitting on there lot in the San Diego area.

[LostBoy]

...based on a friend's recommendation, I'm now leaning more towards the '07 Avalanche. Sigh...so many choices! If only I could get the AV with a duramax... It is a tough decision. I'll have to drive the 2500 again

It's really not a tough decision at all, regardless of how you plan on using it (daily driver, tower, racer) the diesel's your best bet in any category, especially over the Avalanche, dirty abomination that it is.

If all you're concerned about is ride, then maybe go another way - IMO if a smooth ride is the deciding factor in a vehicle purchase (unless you're comparing apples-apples, which isn't the case here), the purchaser in question should be looking at cars, not trucks. Trucks are designed primarily for work, and they can only do so much for comfort w/out sacrificing something. :soapbox:

That being said, I've heard air spring kits (usually used for load-leveling) often have the side benefit of a smoother ride.

[PerfectReign]

It's really not a tough decision at all, regardless of how you plan on using it (daily driver, tower, racer) the diesel's your best bet in any category, especially over the Avalanche, dirty abomination that it is.

Heh. Them's are fightin' words!

Seriously, I used to think the AV was a joke, now I really like the idea. I think GM did a very fine job with the AV. The new one is very nice, IMO.

However, I'd be very concerned about the fuel shutoff feature. Particularly in 50 or 60K miles, when it has been working hard. I have a mis-trust of GM in their 1st generation engine designs, having read about the early (Caddy?) fuel shutoff problems and having lived through the 1st gen EFI issues in my '95 Jimmy. Also, the GMC sales tech (he is a former mech turned sales) said the 4-cylinder option always shuts off the same four cylinders. That just seems to me like trouble waiting to happen.

I just talked to a guy the other day with an '02 AV who has almost 200K miles on his truck. He's "thinking" about maybe getting another in a few years. However, I do appreciate the longevity and resale value of the diesel engine. Yeah, my father-in-law has over 200K on his '86 Chevy Van 30 with the 350, but I know the diesel will double that mileage.

If all you're concerned about is ride, then maybe go another way - IMO if a smooth ride is the deciding factor in a vehicle purchase (unless you're comparing apples-apples, which isn't the case here), the purchaser in question should be looking at cars, not trucks. Trucks are designed primarily for work, and they can only do so much for comfort w/out sacrificing something. :soapbox:

I don’t really want it to be like a car. I just don't want the ride to be "too" harsh. I know my wife will continue to bug me if it is. I really like the ride in the 1500 and in the AV/Suburban/YukonXL. There’s absolutely no complaint there.

With that in mind, I went out yesterday and drove the Ford 250 diesel. For comparison, I drove the same thing as what I'm looking for - crew cab, short bed, 4x2. I wanted to see how the 6.0 was compared to the Dmax.
Well, there was no comparison. The truck - an XLT - was ugly and stripped down. It felt and drove like a work truck. I've driven a TopKick a few times and this was comparable. It was noisy, vibrated like crazy and I felt it couldn't pull itself up to highway speeds any better than my mom's '73 Volkswagen. I don’t want to bash on Ford, because I know the F-150 is a nice truck. I just really didn’t like the 250.

Today, I went out during lunch and drove a 2006 GMC Sierra 2500 SLE. What a difference! That truck is smooth, quiet and fast. I really liked it. If I had the money now, I’d have bought it then and there. There was something about the interior and the drive which set it apart from the Silverado. Don’t know why, just that it was better somehow. (I drove over the same streets as the Ford and Silverado to make sure I was comparing right.) At this time, I figure I can get myself into a Sierra and get a Fold-A-Cover or similar to mimic the Avalanche’s locking ability. I don’t want to get a shell – I had one on my ’87 Nissan and it was a pain to take off. The drive of the Sierra seemed worlds smoother than the Silverado. Of course, both are smoother (and quieter) than the F-250.

That being said, I've heard air spring kits (usually used for load-leveling) often have the side benefit of a smoother ride.

I can look into this. My wife used to complain on my Jimmy (4x4 SLE) that the ride was too obnoxious going over bumps and into driveways. Of course, she was driving a Maxima at the time. Now, she’s used to the Vue or the minivan.

Anybody got an extra $20,000 they can spare? It is for a good cause! :)

[rockme2]

Here is your $20,000 and just because I am a good guy here is $20,000 more.
I love my Fold-a-cover. No water leaks from rain. Car wash on the other hand gets a little water in. I need some weather stripping around the tailgate, and to adjust the front section. The best price I could find (here in Illinois) for it was at Zeibart $650 installed plus tax.

[LostBoy]

Heh. Them's are fightin' words!

Seriously, I used to think the AV was a joke, now I really like the idea. I think GM did a very fine job with the AV. The new one is very nice, IMO.

I can look into this. My wife used to complain on my Jimmy (4x4 SLE) that the ride was too obnoxious going over bumps and into driveways. Of course, she was driving a Maxima at the time. Now, she’s used to the Vue or the minivan.

Sorry - I tend to go off on a rant with these subjects. I've got a bit of an old-school "go big or go home" mentality w/ my trucks, and could probably spend all day sharing my philosophy on the subject, but I'd strongly doubt anybody would care to sit through it.

As far as your wife goes, I know the feeling. If you want a sure-fire cure for her complaints about the ride, just start driving like I do - She'll be too busy white-knuckling the arm rests and telling you to slow down to notice the suspension. After a couple episodes of that, you can revert to your normal driving, but she'll still be watching your speedometer like a hawk to preempt any speeding if she sees that needle crest the speed limit mark. All else will be secondary :run:

[PerfectReign]

As far as your wife goes, I know the feeling. If you want a sure-fire cure for her complaints about the ride, just start driving like I do - She'll be too busy white-knuckling the arm rests and telling you to slow down to notice the suspension. After a couple episodes of that, you can revert to your normal driving, but she'll still be watching your speedometer like a hawk to preempt any speeding if she sees that needle crest the speed limit mark. All else will be secondary :run:

LOL!!!!! I showed this to her and we both had a good laugh. I guess I'll have to take her out to drive the trucks first. That'll get her involved. She enjoys driving her VUE so won't be in the truck too much.

Of course, considering the price of the trucks, I'm also looking at used. There simply aren't that many around! In my area (los angeles) I only got 30 trucks for sale today when searching on diesel Chevy/GMC 2500/Silverado from 1980 to present. Out of that, only two were crew cabs. I saw one '02 with 85,000 on the odometer for almost $22K. I can't imagine buying a truck with such high mileage. (Or am I being crazy?)

[red suburban]

your being loco. 85K miles on a newer truck, expecially a diesel, is nothing. considering the year thats probably mostly highway miles, which is better imo. that engine is really just broken in, its got PLENTY more miles to go. you very seriously might want to look at trucks in arizona/new mexico/texas. there are a WHOLE lot more of them.

biggest thing that i know to look out for on the early duramaxes, is that if the previous owner put a programmer on it, that the tranny has been upgraded as well. also check to see that if the truck you are looking at was brought into the shop for recalls on it. other than that test drive it, see how firm the shifts are, if there is alot of black smoke at startup (and i mean ALOT) then the injectors probably need work. alot of white smoke at start, glow plug system needs work, or it was water in the fuel. some smoke should be expected, expecially if its rained since the last time the truck was started (water collecting in the exhaust, sometimes the fuel tank). but you shouldnt be able to fill the parking lot with smoke.

[K5Fury]

85K on that truck is probably about 15K on a comparable gasser.

[TwoTone98Z71]

PROS...
9.being able to smoke countless Ricers with a 6,000 lb truck
10.always having a grin on your face while driving
:word: and :word:


CONS.....
2.will spit some smoke if getting on the pedal
3.may get more speeding tickets pulling or not
4. uncontrolable urge to mod for more power
5. uuuhhhhhh well thats all the cons I can think of, basicly get the duramax you won't regret it.


:word: to all except 2. that is not a con

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/TwoTone98Z71/random%20crap/th_0729062206.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/TwoTone98Z71/random%20crap/?action=view&current=0729062206.flv)

[dozerboy]

I wouldn't buy a used diesel if you want it to really last especially one from someone in CA X100 if it has any power mods done to it. Everyone I know with one runs the tunes on Kill and tells me "hey watch me do a 4 wheel burnout". Here (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchresults.jsp?mod_bookmark_id=null&advanced=y&bkms=1154997726024&num_records=25&certified=&search=y&lang=en&search_type=both&make=CHEV&model=CHEVC25&make2=&start_year=2001&end_year=2006&min_price=&max_price=&max_mileage=&distance=100&address=90303&engine=&fuel=Diesel&drive=&transmission=&doors=&color=&x=98&y=14) are 186 Dmax with-in 100 miles of 90303

[LostBoy]

I wouldn't buy a used diesel if you want it to really last especially one from someone in CA X100 if it has any power mods done to it. Everyone I know with one runs the tunes on Kill and tells me "hey watch me do a 4 wheel burnout".

He does have a good point - I'd suggest if you go thru a private seller, try to find one owned by somebody pushing retirement age with a rather small trailer. Much younger and your risk of getting a truck that was hot-rodded goes up. If they talk about how they can't get over all the power it has compared to the truck they had before, you can be reasonably assured that they never saw any need to turn it up or ever really get on it hard, because they were used to putting around in an unmodified 12V Cummins with half a million miles when they got rid of it.

[PerfectReign]

Ahh, my apologies. I should've posted here sooner. I ended up making my decision. Hopefully it will be a good one.

As of Friday, I'm the owner of an '06 Avalanche.

http://www.perfectreign.com/files/images/av_o1_0.preview.JPG

I got it for $24,000 and change, which is about $12,000 below the sticker. I pretty much couldn't resist. I'd been emailing one guy on the avalanche fan club site who had just switched to a 2500 DMax because of towing. I think this will serve my purposes better. Driving it is a dream and it is - IMO - almost as cool as the DMax -- and about 30" shorter. The 5.3 gives the truck good power so far, and I've already loaded my ocean kayak in the back to see how it goes. Also, the kids love it.

Thanks for all your help and advice!!

(Anybody want to buy a used minivan??)

[TwoTone98Z71]

:loser:

[PerfectReign]

:loser:

LOL! Hey, better watch out! I see you're in Wyoming. I got lots o' family up on the ranch in Worland. And they're armed...


http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/HakeRanch_300dpi_sm.jpg


...okay, the picute is a bit old, but you can imagine they're taking good care of me!


I wonder if those cars were diesel...

[TwoTone98Z71]

k I dont want to get shot. and no they were just clattery like one

[LostBoy]

Ahh, my apologies. I should've posted here sooner. I ended up making my decision. Hopefully it will be a good one.

As of Friday, I'm the owner of an '06 Avalanche...

...it is - IMO - almost as cool as the DMax -- and about 30" shorter. The 5.3 gives the truck good power so far, and I've already loaded my ocean kayak in the back to see how it goes. Also, the kids love it...


Almost as cool as the DMax?!?!? :idiot: IMO good power is nothing to MORE power... You have my pity

[PerfectReign]

Almost as cool as the DMax?!?!? :idiot: IMO good power is nothing to MORE power... You have my pity

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

My neighbor - who owned an F-350 powerstroke - just traded it in this weekend for a 2500 DMax with the Allison tranny. He heard me talking it up the past few months and decided to take the plunge. He's very happy so far.

Man, my AV looks small compared to his truck!

In any case, I can now live vicariously though his truck. I - or rather my wife - got the AV and he's now got the 2500.

I just hope I don't end up driving my wife's VUE.

[LostBoy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

My neighbor - who owned an F-350 powerstroke - just traded it in this weekend for a 2500 DMax with the Allison tranny. He heard me talking it up the past few months and decided to take the plunge. He's very happy so far.

Man, my AV looks small compared to his truck!

In any case, I can now live vicariously though his truck. I - or rather my wife - got the AV and he's now got the 2500.

I just hope I don't end up driving my wife's VUE.

I'm glad you're a good sport - I understand when you're a family man, you've got to consider the family over yourself in these things. As far as your wife's VUE, should she take over the Avalanche, I think the Saturn becomes fair game and the front-running candidate for a trade-in. Bet you can guess the suggested acquisition from the trade... Either that or you'll find yourself no longer living vicariously through your neighbor's truck so much as finding reasons to borrow it...

[FBJR]

My new 2500 rides just fine. It is no car but even with the front cranked up little it rides fine.

Check out the GM site for who has what in the area. Plenty around still.

FB