A little fiberglass help

[TheOtherSide]

So I had been thinking of doing my entire box of MDF because of cost of fiberglass and time (lack of experience). I figured I might as well give it a shot but I need to ask a few questions first before I decide to jump into it.

First:
I have seen people make molds of the floor and seen people make the walls of the box and then stretch material over that to give it the shape (I am only looking to glass the floor). Which method is prefered for strongest bond and if you lay the mat on the floor first then attach the box later, how is that accomplished?

Second:
What all materials would be needed? I know the following: mat (prob 1.5 Oz), resin (epoxy or poly?), rollers, material, gloves, mask, mixing cups, brushes. What else would I need and where would you recommend getting resin by the large quantity (gallon)?

Third:
To lay glass on the floor you need to cover everything in foil, tape, and wax/grease/removable paste, but what else is there to it? It is really just as easy as saturating strips with resin, laying them on the floor to the desired shape, and then letting them dry?

I am thinking about 7-10 layers for the floor to cover all those weird bumps and the center hump, which is going to be a PITA to cut MDF around. I already have the templates made I just need to make them out of MDF. I am not doubting my wood working skills I just don't have the time or space right now to cut all those weird angles and I figure I could gain around 53"x14"x.3" (.123 ft^3) of extra space using glass instead of MDF.

Let me know what you think as I really want to get started on this. I have been using a crappy setup (old box that I made for another car that is so out of place in the back) and I need the room soon. When I get started, I will post pics in the Box Buildup thread I already started.

[Joseph K]

www.fiberglassforums.com

ALL kinds of info. on there.

[KWHITELAW]

first: why do you feel the need to fiberglass the box?? space? design? just want to waste some money and try it out??

still want to do it? couple ways to accomplish. i usually do extended cab boxes with the sides and front out of wood, floor fiberglass, and rear and top dependent on the finish. soo you could build the ends and the front going over the transmission hump.. i just use three layers or so of masking tape on the floor. make sure to go opposite directions and cover more area than the box is covering to be safe. set the "box" in place the then you will see where your mat is going. cut squares of mat and lay it in place. saturate and repeat. as you get to the wood, build up onto it with mat so it seals together..once you have multiple layers down, you can remove the box and continue working on the floor outside of the truck. just make sure you have enough layers down before you remove it or it might warp. then you just decide how the top is going to look. flat wood? screws it to the sides and be done. rings? attach them to the wood and then fleece over top. saturate that and when dry apply fiberglass mat to the inside, through the woofer holes. finish the box like you normally wood, carpet, vinyl, apint.

fiberglassforum.com is good for a material list.

[TheOtherSide]

Basically all I want to try to do is glass the part that is on the floor and follows the contours of the floor and tranny hump. Doing this all out of MDF is going to take time and I figure I can get a little bit more space. Either way, glass or wood, I am going to have to spend more money its just do I get more MDF or try to glass?

This was my thought process, correct me if I am way off base here:

I already have the panels for front, back, and sides laid out and a pattern for each. These are the easy pieces to cut. The top will be a flat piece of MDF with a double baffle for the woofer and plenty of reinforcement being it's going to be 53" long and ported. I figure between if I can glass the bottom/floor for between $65-80 it is worth both my time and money. If it is going to be >$100 I may just say F it.

By the way, I am thinking I am going to go vinyl over the entire box. If not, I will carpet it. Being that it will be bolted to the floor, it makes tucking underneath to hide the seams the most logical solution.

[KWHITELAW]

vinyl is gonna be hard on the sides concerning seams. if you have a very stretchable vinyl you may be okay but i would incorporate endcaps maybe out of carpet matching the floor carpet that can seam up with the vinyl.

as far as how much the fiberglass would cost. if you are frugal you could do it. get some acetone and put it in a cup. stick your brush in there in between layers and you can do the whole job with 2 brushes. thicker fiberglass mat will build up quicker but cost more. cheaper mat <1.5oz> will be cheaper but take alot more material.try and find a marine boat supply place to get your resin. the vinyl alone could eat up half your budget tho. good stretchable vinyl can be $30 a yd.

another thing to keep in mind. if you built the box entirely out of wood it will be easier to get your dimensions down to determine airspace since you want to go ported. fiberglassing the floor means you will have to measure that area with peanuts, sand, etc so you are close.

[BassBaller5]

1. the fleece is used to create a free form box... the matting is used to make a mold (such as a floor) you then glue and fiberglass the wood to it and wrap it in fleece or make it straight MDF.

2. find a cheap autopaint store for the resin, pepboys also started carrying it and so does home depot. you will also need a type of paint thinner, i use acetone, to clean your brushes. you will also need hardner (should come with resin), body filler, sandpaper(alot), and fleece if you want a free form enclosure.

3. yes its that easy, but do many many layers. you want it very strong. and dont over resin your pieces as it will only make them weaker.


let me know if you have anything else and ill do my best to help!

[KWHITELAW]

find a cheap autopaint store for the resin, pepboys also started carrying it and so does home depot.

no disrespect but i have to disagree. once you have used good resin, resin that is taken off the shelves every 90 days, you will never go back to pepboys type resin. from time to time when i need to run next door and get a gallon of cheap ****, i remember again why i shouldve just ordered extra for the job. no comparison. cheap stuff is thick and "goopy", often not penetrating into the mat well. and getting the better resin isnt much more expensive from a marine type place.

plus you can get the bubble gum additive mixed in.

[Mkader17]

I didn't even know there was a difference in resin lol

i use acetone, to clean your brushes
Forget cleaning the brushes it will be more work then the glass itself. I bought really cheap brushes (14 for $2) and left them in the quart size bucket with a lil resin and when it dries you use the brush to pop out the dried stuff and you have a clean quart mix bucket again (the lil buckets are like 50 cent a peice so 12 cent brush vs 50 cent bucket). It will come out looking like this....

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f351/mkader2k6/Custom%20Kick%20Panels/Update10-15-06.jpg

btw those aren't the cheap brushes those were just some old ones I had laying around

[Mkader17]

Some tips I would give are to be swift with your work, but don't rush. Use lots of mat and keep all air bubbles out (they love to show up in the acute angles of the surface) also if you can find the better resin it is probably worth it

[BassBaller5]

no disrespect but i have to disagree. once you have used good resin, resin that is taken off the shelves every 90 days, you will never go back to pepboys type resin. from time to time when i need to run next door and get a gallon of cheap ****, i remember again why i shouldve just ordered extra for the job. no comparison. cheap stuff is thick and "goopy", often not penetrating into the mat well. and getting the better resin isnt much more expensive from a marine type place.

plus you can get the bubble gum additive mixed in.
no worries man, i agree with you. resin will crystalize with age and Oxygen (the hardner is actually a oxygen like liquid). the paintstore here actually keeps theres refrigated and dehumidified so thats why i reccomended a place like that. this will make little dimples when sanding and not have as clean of a look. the pepboys/home depot was if he decided to wrap in leather and didnt care about a perfect paint ready surface.

as for the brushes, im a cheap college kid so i reuse my brushes even if it is more work. the acetone also helps keep it off your hands but if you use gloves (cheap rubber doctor ones work great) it shouldnt be a problem. and like previously stated, use the brush tips to dab the resin to get rid of air bubbles which will just pop when sanding and really screw you over.

[hca]

I cant see why you would need any filler. If there are any $1 stores buy a few bucks worth of brushes and forget the acetone. Over here you get 7 brushes for a buck, from 1/2" to 2" a couple of each. If there are any shops that carry chopmat in bulk buy from them. DMC has 2oz mat for $5 per yard. If it were me I would:
-Foil over floor
-Do one layer of mat about 3" bigger than the box
-put box in place while that layer is wet, the start laying more chopmat
-lay some matting coming up the walls of the inside of the box. You will want the 'glass biting as much as possible
Also, I would try to use big pieces of matting, if possible, cut them the size of the bottom of the box. If you plan on doing smaller pieces, RIP them, not cut. A trick I learned form FSC i think. The fibers stick out and lock together better like fingers rather than straight edges being layerd together.
Then just trim the 'glass that sticks out on the bottom edges. Might even consider driving some screws through the 'glass into the bottom edges of the MDF just for saftey, a little extra bite.

But thats how I would go about it. I cant see you spending too much money. Resin: ~$30, Matting: ~$10, Brushes: ~$5
And with the big area you will be 'glassing, I can't see the release wax necessary. Bigger pieces tend to release from foil easier I hav found. If you wanna be safe, just get a bunch of vaseline from the dollar store too. Again just my opinion!! Good luck

[vpogv]

Matting will run you more than $10 if you do any amount of space. I spent probably $25 on mat, but guess it depends on where you get it from.

For my sub box I did just glassed the bottom and used MDF for the sides, front and top. I taped foil down instead of using layers of tape like suggested above and then put down 3 layers of mat. Let it dry for a couple hours and it was strong enough to remove and work on outside of the truck. I probably ended up with 8 layers of mat before it held up to the "1 finger" test. I then attached the MDF to the fiberglass by 2 layers of fiberglass cloth and used bondoglass on the inside seams to add strength.
It took longer to do fiberglass than cut MDF, but doing so allows you to use every bit of space under the seat.

[///M5]

DSz71 has a buildup of a glass bottom underseat box either here or on cardomain. Should be reasonably easy to copy.

Waxless resin is the way to go, an art store might be where you need to get it though. It will allow layers to stick whether they have dried or are still wet. It is way easier to work with than crap resin.

A respirator is more than recommended, to me its required. That chit is nasty to breath.

One other tip. I saturate my glass fibers on a piece of cardboard and then lift it off and apply. It will really help you conserve resin and make a stronger surface because of it.

Most importantly, have fun!

[vpogv]

A respirator is more than recommended, to me its required. That chit is nasty to breath.

+1 - not a dust mask, a respirator. If you for some reason can't afford or don't get one make sure you work outside and stay up wind from those fumes.

[thekl0wn]

Check out www.USComposites.com for resin. It's by far the best quality chit to use (B-440), and it's cheaper (for me) to buy it and have it shipped to my door than it is to go to town to get it.

[TheOtherSide]

Thanks for all the help guys. I am starting to think it won't be as bad to do as I have heard and I think I can do it in my spare time.

[thekl0wn]

Just an FYI... I was bored this morning, so here's a bit of f/g info: http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/general-discussion/tech-articles/280959-fiberglassing-guide.html

[TheOtherSide]

I saw that. Thanks for it. Maybe as I move along I can add some stuff I learn along the way to help others. Since I am really a first timer at glassing I might have some perspectives to add.

Also, thanks for the link to US Composites. They have good product and some really good prices.

[vpogv]

Thanks for all the help guys. I am starting to think it won't be as bad to do as I have heard and I think I can do it in my spare time.

It's not hard at all, take your time and read the mixing instructions and you won't have problems.

[thekl0wn]

I saw that. Thanks for it. Maybe as I move along I can add some stuff I learn along the way to help others. Since I am really a first timer at glassing I might have some perspectives to add.

That'd be great! You can let me know the blatantly obvious points that I've missed!

[glassman2k2]

Check out www.USComposites.com for resin. It's by far the best quality chit to use (B-440), and it's cheaper (for me) to buy it and have it shipped to my door than it is to go to town to get it.

+1, I go to a place called composites one, but I think they may be very similar