4BT Cummins Turbo Diesel in an 05 Silverado (with pictures!)

[1LOWDIESEL]

ha that's weird, that's what i'm gonna do with mine. the rear i got is an 8 lug 14 bolt ff, so i was gonna use my stock 2500 lower control arms and hubs up front to make it 8 lug.

[Tang763]

I'm acctually glad I ran accross this topic. I also have an 05 Single cab, short bed, 4.3, 2wd but with an auto tranny. I've been looking for a new hobby build and I've been doing a bunch of homework on swapping in a 12valve T Cummins. I was going to purchase a motor/tranny probably in the next week and begin rebuilding everything before install. I was wondering how the factory gauges were going to work with the new sensors, I see you managed to get through it pretty easy, do these same tricks apply to the 12v? I'm also planning on doing an SAS with 1 tons early next year.

[Redliner Raw]

I have to say, nothing I love more than seeing this.

Any more info on the motor mount fabrication, perhaps some pics? I'm considering this in the near distant future, but mounts for the engine are one thing that would delay this project. I'm not a fan of solid mounts (possibly why so many people complain about vibrations, like you said), but I have no idea about fab'ing flex mounts.

Very nice work here. Are you running higher boost with the turned up pump? Stock compression? High flow injectors? Also, is it the same turbo as the 5.9? My cousin has considered a 8.3 turbo on his 5.9, little more airflow, I don't know if you can do the same with the 3.9 to 5.9.

[LonLB]

One vote for pump cranked to the max, o-ringed head, 70lbs of boost, and mini-tub....

Given the numbers the 6cyl cum ons get I would think that thing should be able to hit 500hp, 1000lb/ft with a bit of work.

[Redliner Raw]

Originally Posted by LonLB

One vote for pump cranked to the max, o-ringed head, 70lbs of boost, and mini-tub....

Given the numbers the 6cyl cum ons get I would think that thing should be able to hit 500hp, 1000lb/ft with a bit of work.

Did they make an ISB version of the 4BT? I've heard that the 12V pumps on a 24V ISB can crank some serious HP, like 800HP, 1200 lb/ft easy hands down, with some other mods of course.

[Black06]

best bet is to just do the p pump conversion and intercooler. Although easier said than done since the 4 cylinder p7100s are harder to find

[VortecZ]

Originally Posted by 1LOWDIESEL

i was gonna use my stock 2500 lower control arms and hubs up front to make it 8 lug.

You might want to do some measuring. I think the frame width is different between 1500 & 2500 causing a little more work? I haven't given up on that idea, I just don't have the parts in front of me to try. I hope you figure it out first!

Originally Posted by Tang763

I was wondering how the factory gauges were going to work with the new sensors, I see you managed to get through it pretty easy, do these same tricks apply to the 12v? I'm also planning on doing an SAS with 1 tons early next year.

Yes, all the same tricks apply and good luck with your build. I've got a lot of local buddies trying to talk me into doing a SAS & adding a transfer case to mine right now. I think that would be hard on my 30mpg though!

Originally Posted by Redliner Raw

Any more info on the motor mount fabrication, perhaps some pics?
Very nice work here. Are you running higher boost with the turned up pump? Stock compression? High flow injectors? Also, is it the same turbo as the 5.9? My cousin has considered a 8.3 turbo on his 5.9, little more airflow, I don't know if you can do the same with the 3.9 to 5.9.

I don't have many good pics of the mounts. The process of fabbing my mounts was no different than fabbing any type of mount. You just start by welding plates to the frame so the hydraulic mounts have a place to sit, then bolt plates to the motor and start welding to them to connect to the mounts. The motor was hanging from a hoist and and positioned where I wanted it while I was making the mounts.
Currently, my motor is 100% stock with the exception of the fuel pump being turned up. The turbo is an HC1 wich is the same used on the first generation 5.9s. I do have plans to upgrade it but haven't decided on what exactly I'm going to do. (one bigger one on top of this one or one bigger one instead of this one)

Originally Posted by LonLB

One vote for pump cranked to the max, o-ringed head, 70lbs of boost, and mini-tub....

Given the numbers the 6cyl cum ons get I would think that thing should be able to hit 500hp, 1000lb/ft with a bit of work.

Originally Posted by Redliner Raw

Did they make an ISB version of the 4BT? I've heard that the 12V pumps on a 24V ISB can crank some serious HP, like 800HP, 1200 lb/ft easy hands down, with some other mods of course.

Originally Posted by Black06

best bet is to just do the p pump conversion and intercooler. Although easier said than done since the 4 cylinder p7100s are harder to find

I have heard of guys getting over 800hp with these little motors but that will take more money than I am willing to spend right now. I really wanted a p-pumped motor to begin with but they are a lot harder to find and usually draw more money. They did make a 16 valve version and bumped the cubes to 4.5. We have one in a Case skid steer right now but I haven't heard much of anyone putting them in trucks.

[VortecZ]

I'm finishing up the rebuild of a wrecked Duramax truck right now and have decided there is no way to fit a Dmax intercooler in a non-HD truck without a lot of work. I've got it figured out that it could be done by dropping the frame horns 2" like you would if doing a 2" body drop then use an HD core support (which is 2" taller) so the intercooler will fit like stock. You would also want to use the HD bumper pad to which would look really cool on this little truck. I just don't think it is worth it plus the HD core supports aren't cheap.

I still have a few other options. I have two other intercoolers that I'm going to try to fit in when I have time. I can also see it may be best to do some measuring and just have one made to fit.

[Black06]

I hate to continued hijacking your thread VortecZ

the 16v 4.5's came along with the new 6.7's the cummins lineup. Unfortunately they are longer than the traditional 4bt due to the timing gear and injection pump being positioned to the rear of the motor. Good luck finding much information on the 4.5's other than the cummins website. I have also hear of there being an ISB based 16v 3.9 as well. Both the 16v 3.9/4.5's were found in the new Fedex and UPS trucks made by Workhorse until the recently changed engine manufacturers. From what I have read the Homeland Security Act mandates that all private shipping trucks be destroyed at the end of their use, that's why I never see them for sale.....unless you buy a Fedex Ground franchise including the route and the trucks.


Of course there are always the industrial applications that the 4.5 are used in as well as purchasing one direct from cummins.

[Redliner Raw]

So are the mounts really just some form of bracket, with a rubber bushing or washer, for lack of a better description?

[VortecZ]

Black06, I don't mind the thread-jack, that is good info on these motors!



The motor mounts I used were in the step van I got the motor from. They are a manufactured mount with hydraulic isolation. Kinda like a shock encased in rubber. One stud on top and two on the bottom. You just have to fab a bracket on the truck to hold the mount and then fab a bracket on the motor to sit on top of the mount. I'm not sure where you would go to get a new pair but probably some kind of a fleet truck service store.

Here is pic I robbed from someone else because it shows the mount itself better than any of my own pics.

[Redliner Raw]

Originally Posted by VortecZ

Black06, I don't mind the thread-jack, that is good info on these motors!



The motor mounts I used were in the step van I got the motor from. They are a manufactured mount with hydraulic isolation. Kinda like a shock encased in rubber. One stud on top and two on the bottom. You just have to fab a bracket on the truck to hold the mount and then fab a bracket on the motor to sit on top of the mount. I'm not sure where you would go to get a new pair but probably some kind of a fleet truck service store.

Here is pic I robbed from someone else because it shows the mount itself better than any of my own pics.

Awesome, that's kinda what I was thinking. So other than that bit of fabbing, this seems like a really, really straightforward swap. Any pics of the underside of the truck, and accessibility to the oil pan, etc.?

[VortecZ]

The very first post shows the front crossmember with the oil pan haning down and another pic of the transmission crossmemeber. Not much else to see under there. Plenty of room.

[Redliner Raw]

Originally Posted by VortecZ

The very first post shows the front crossmember with the oil pan haning down and another pic of the transmission crossmemeber. Not much else to see under there. Plenty of room.

Yeah, missed them this time through it all.

You could damn near fit a second 4BT in all that space down there.

[Black06]

from the looks of my original pictures I think the ISB version runs a CP3 style injection pump....further searching states that the 4.5 makes upwards of 170 hp and 450 lb ft in it's most potent version

damn I want a Fedex truck! my little shortbed would cook the hides with that kinda power, I couldn't imagine what injectors and a tune would produce

[Redliner Raw]

Originally Posted by Black06

from the looks of my original pictures I think the ISB version runs a CP3 style injection pump....further searching states that the 4.5 makes upwards of 170 hp and 450 lb ft in it's most potent version

damn I want a Fedex truck! my little shortbed would cook the hides with that kinda power, I couldn't imagine what injectors and a tune would produce

How does that compare to say a stock 305? I'm curious how a 1/2 ton transmission (4L60E/ NV3500) would hold up, seems like a lot of torque, but I have to wonder, if it's your daily driver, you'll never be making that engine produce that kind of torque. I assume you'd only want a 4L80E/ NV4500 if you plan on using all that power.

[1LOWDIESEL]

Originally Posted by Black06

from the looks of my original pictures I think the ISB version runs a CP3 style injection pump....further searching states that the 4.5 makes upwards of 170 hp and 450 lb ft in it's most potent version

damn I want a Fedex truck! my little shortbed would cook the hides with that kinda power, I couldn't imagine what injectors and a tune would produce

correct except the cp3 is at the back of the motor and runs off the flywheel.

Originally Posted by Redliner Raw

How does that compare to say a stock 305? I'm curious how a 1/2 ton transmission (4L60E/ NV3500) would hold up, seems like a lot of torque, but I have to wonder, if it's your daily driver, you'll never be making that engine produce that kind of torque. I assume you'd only want a 4L80E/ NV4500 if you plan on using all that power.

simply put it wouldn't hold up. you cna do a 4l80e or nv4500 they would be fine for it.

also vortec you might want to consider doing a water meth kit, it will give you the same cooling results and at the same time better mileage.

[Redliner Raw]

Originally Posted by 1LOWDIESEL

correct except the cp3 is at the back of the motor and runs off the flywheel.

That must be one pain in the ass to time.

[VortecZ]

Originally Posted by Redliner Raw

That must be one pain in the ass to time.

No, the computer would take care of that. The problem with one of those is I bet Bully Dog and other companies like them don't have a programmer to do anything extra. Of course, I would be very happy with the stock horsepower of one of those right now!

[Black06]

you might be able to run the PPE Dual Fueler bracket setup for the 5.9 ISB and delete the rear mounted pump. I have yet to see a 4.5 in person so I could not give a definate answer there.