90 454SS vs 94 Lightning - TrucksTV

[Sierra H/O]

They should have found a 93. They 93 454 was rated at 255 hp vs. 230 for the 90. The torque is the big number though, since it was 450 ft/lbs in 93 vs. 370 in the 90. Since they are going to build it up though, it doesn't really matter. Should be a cool build.

[Koots]

Originally Posted by TruedualDD32

Yep, my brother had an 86 with a 350 and a quadrajet. That truck also had a TH400 and 3.42 posi.

My memory is not failing me, I never said the 4L80 was available in the 1990 truck. You are 100% correct, it debuted in 1991. I have looked around the internet a bit and have found that the 4L80 had problems related to the electronic controls more-so than the actual mechanical portion of the trans.

The 4L80 was not electronically controlled. it is only computer controlled if you add the -E to the end. I believe this came around 94-96 (maybe even as early as 92 but my memory is failing me)otherwise it was still controlled my mechanical methods.

4L80 is based off of the TH400 which is bulletproof. the TH350 had some problems as did the 4L60E on which it was based on. This is why you still see drag cars running them, i've even seen one in a 350Z that was used to break the 1000hp barrier with the VQ35 engine.

the electronic transmissions came in 1993.

[GreaseDog]

Originally Posted by Koots

The 4L80 was not electronically controlled. it is only computer controlled if you add the -E to the end. I believe this came around 94-96 (maybe even as early as 92 but my memory is failing me)otherwise it was still controlled my mechanical methods.

you are correct in the fact that the 4L80 was not electronically controlled, simply for the fact that you cannot electronically control something that does not exist. starting in 1991 the 4L80E was available, and it has always been electronically controlled. the 4L60E started in 1993.

[Koots]

Damn! i knew i was wrong with something
Thanks Greasedog, for always setting me right

[GreaseDog]

somebody has to do it! lol

my buddy Tyson was trying to tell me that there was a 4L80 a few months back that was available in P30 trucks, so i went straight to the dealership parts books, no such animal, everything was electronically controlled. you're not the only one who has been confused with the debut of electronic trannys being 93, that was the 60E. i would assume that the 91 debut of the 80E, and the 93 of the 60E had something to do with having to rework all of the engine harnesses to control electronic trannys. with so many engine, platform, and emissions system differences, that task would be HUGE.

my money goes on the 454SS, since its a build-up. its extra displacement is gonna come into play big time.

[gmc406]

Does anybody know what GM did to de-tune the 454 to produce such poor numbers? With just a few bolt-ons and the 454 could be a devil.

[Red94Chev]

Originally Posted by andrewdirt101

my money goes on the 454SS, since its a build-up. its extra displacement is gonna come into play big time.

Yeah, I don't know yet. The 454SS will definitely have awesome torque/hp numbers due to the added displacement. The challenge for them will be getting the truck to hook up, but I have a feeling they have learned a thing or two from their S10 dragtruck build-up. They should be able to get close to 500 hp out of it with the right parts combination. Notice how they didn't mention any budget for these builds. I'm expecting a complete wish-list of parts.

As for the Ford, they will even the score with a supercharger for sure (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...=96&cat_key=14 or http://www.powerdyne.com/ford.htm), but depends on how much boost they'll run. With aftermarket exhaust and a high lift cam, they'll hit 400hp easy even on 6 pounds of boost. These things can move pretty fast. Check out this link: http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ace/index.html. The red truck at the bottom of the page runs the stock engine with a Vortech supercharger at 11.5 psi boost and it put down a 12.014 @ 110 MPH in the 1/4.

[Red94Chev]

Originally Posted by gmc406

Does anybody know what GM did to de-tune the 454 to produce such poor numbers? With just a few bolt-ons and the 454 could be a devil.

Small camshaft, poor performing heads, terrible exhaust. The 90 454SS originally came with the pellet-type catalytic converter, a definite horsepower-killer compared to today's high flow cats.

[GreaseDog]

Originally Posted by gmc406

Does anybody know what GM did to de-tune the 454 to produce such poor numbers? With just a few bolt-ons and the 454 could be a devil.

i know exactly what they did... they complied to EPA standards.

the power of ANY engine is in the heads and the cam. exhaust wasnt completely terrible, other than the uber restrictive cats.

[GreaseDog]

Originally Posted by andrewdirt101

my money goes on the 454SS, since its a build-up. its extra displacement is gonna come into play big time.

though the BBC definitely makes more torque, which there's no denying, if stock stock injection types are used, the Ford's 97ci handicap may not be that big of a handicap after all. the Ford will make RPMs quicker due to its lighter rotating mass, and will fuel more efficiently thanks to its MPFI.

just another thing to think about...

[chevysnbuicks]

Originally Posted by GreaseDog

i know exactly what they did... they complied to EPA standards.

Ok, you guys have to remember this is TV we're talking about here. Naturally they are going to select two pretty evenly matched *stock* trucks. Thus we get a '90 SS chev with a weaker 454, TBI, etc, and a '94 f**d lightning with a 351, MPFI, etc, thus they have to have a newer and partially superior f**d to be close to even to a weak 454.

Go ahead and work your magic boys, but I think it'll be cheaper and easier to fix up the chevy.

[Koots]

Originally Posted by GreaseDog

i know exactly what they did... they complied to EPA standards.

the power of ANY engine is in the heads and the cam. exhaust wasnt completely terrible, other than the uber restrictive cats.

Very true, the numbers may seem weak now, but at the time this was the big dog sport truck for GM. If you give that truck a modern refreshining (heads,cam,induction,exhaust,etc.) it will put out numbers like a big block should. Only in the last few years has most of the automotive world been able to recover from the first oil embargo and EPA emmisions standards to put out amazing power from their engines. seems like were gonna be walking that road again soon too, by the looks of it.

[ridered333]

chevy vs. ford this is always makes me laugh. im a chevy guy through and through but the fact of the matter is you can build any motor faster than the next its just a matter of wich block can stand up to more power and time and time again gm is left standing

[Sbc_inside]

Well if they are not limited to any budget.....



thats all i got to say.

[94Blazer383]

Originally Posted by Sbc_inside

Well if they are not limited to any budget.....



thats all i got to say.

No No...put one of these bad boys in there and be done with it. 522 BBC twin turbo, 2000 hp. You would have to be one crazy muther...to even drive this thing.

[IMG]5 25 Twin Turbo made by Nelson Racing Engines, 200[/IMG]

[Red94Chev]

Originally Posted by Red94Chev

On the new season of TrucksTV, they opened with a shoot-out build-up of a 90 454SS and a 94 Ford Lightning. The classic Chevy vs Ford comparo - 90's-style! This weekend's episode was baseline testing with an OEM tune-up for both trucks. The 454SS put down 195 rwhp and the Ford squeezed out 228 rwhp as the starting point. I can't remember the torque numbers unfortunately. Their road test was pretty cool too. The Ford had a slight edge in 0-60 and 1/4 times. Over the next few episodes, the Trucks boys are going to built these trucks up to 400+ hp.

Why am I mentioning this? The 454SS is the big brother TBI motor of the 350 TBI and there may be few pointers to pick up from their built-up. They are also doing other suspension/performance upgrades and probably heading back to the road test to assess the performance numbers (mainly stopping and acceleration I'd suspect). If past build-ups are any guide, their no-expense-spared approach to performance projects should make for some good ole healthy hi-po entertainment. Just a heads up.

My guess is that they are going to rebuild the bottom end and stick it with a complete roller valvetrain setup. They'll replace the heads with aftermarket high flow units and use either the Edelbrock 1000 cfm Pro-Flo or the Holley DFI Super-Ram setup. Aftermarket companies like to showcase new parts on these shows: maybe install Edelbrock's new Pro-Tuner setup? Of course, new exhaust from the heads back. For the Ford, I wouldn't be surprised if they go this route: http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ing/index.html

Well, looks like they are doing the 454SS first on this weekend's episode. From the Powerblock preview video at http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/, they tore the whole engine out.

And now the disappointing news...http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/trucks/episodes/ "...adding new heads, a new valve train and a big carb and intake to his 454 to wake up the potential in this big V-8." Thought they might use Edelbrock's Pro-Flo EFI set-up since it is listed underneath in the "Show Products" section, but apparently not. What a waste! I hope that's a typo.

[Sierra H/O]

Originally Posted by Red94Chev

Well, looks like they are doing the 454SS first on this weekend's episode. From the Powerblock preview video at http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/, they tore the whole engine out.

And now the disappointing news...http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/trucks/episodes/ "...adding new heads, a new valve train and a big carb and intake to his 454 to wake up the potential in this big V-8." Thought they might use Edelbrock's Pro-Flo EFI set-up since it is listed underneath in the "Show Products" section, but apparently not. What a waste! I hope that's a typo.

If you look at the 2nd link, it says show products under the picture of the Truck's shop. The 1st one listed is Edelbrock-Pro Flo EFI.

[1loudss]

the lightning should have the e4od trans which can be made to compete with a th400