90 454SS vs 94 Lightning - TrucksTV

[yellow400ex05]

not to get off topic but what happened to the old host on trucks?

Anyway I'm keeping my eye out on this episode. watched both of them so far! I'd like to say the Chevy has it but I'm not sure, it'll be interesting

[Tristan]

The pan gasket and filter kit would be exactly identical to the 4L80E.

I used to work at a local Napa while I was in highschool as their warehouse parts guy. I remember the old boxes being labeled as 4L80/4L80E even.

That was also around the same time window that I originally started searching for a wrecked diesel pickup with a 4L80(E) tranny that I could swap for my TH400.

The non electronically controled ones are incredibly few and far in between, and I believe were only installed in diesel trucks, vans, and possibly motorhomes. The more popular 4L80E, with the stand alone controller being installed in the exact same vehicles makes the search difficult now 15 years after the fact.

[2500ak]

Originally Posted by yellow400ex05

not to get off topic but what happened to the old host on trucks?

He has a different show, I think its called Gearz it used to be on one of the ESPN channels but I've seen it on the SPEED network too.

[GreaseDog]

i'm not asking you to find a trans, im asking you to find proof that one existed.

having worked at a GM dealer, i had access to both parts documentation, and service data. i too searched for information on the 4L80E to swap into a project i was working on at the time, and saw no mention of anything but a 4L80E. no such animal ever existed. if it were in fact an actual trans, someone would have reproduced the non-electric valve body for use in an 80E for conversion purposes. to date, the only non-electric valve body available for an 80E is a full manual valve body, with no ability to shift anything on its own.

i dont want to see a trans, i want to see some form of concrete information confirming its existance, from a reputable source.

[Bens95cobra8594]

Originally Posted by yellow400ex05

not to get off topic but what happened to the old host on trucks?

I think I saw Stacy David on Outdoor network a while ago. Same show as already mentioned... Gearz. You either like that guy or think he's a tool.

[94Blazer383]

Originally Posted by Bens95cobra8594

I think I saw Stacy David on Outdoor network a while ago. Same show as already mentioned... Gearz. You either like that guy or think he's a tool.

He is on Speed Sat. mornings. I think he knows his stuff.

He built one of these last week...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5_UUDjWWyQ

[oldred95]

I think the biggest confusion is GM when it comes to their labeling. For whatever reason they refer to the 700R4 as a 4L60 which they say is a non electronic form of the 4L60E. To me there is a 700R4 and a 4L60E and thats it, there is no such thing as a 4L60. That is just stupid and only creates confusion.


As for the 4L80 my guess is aftermarket companys selling parts for it and have no idea what its even called. I've never heard of a 4L80, only the turbo 400 and then the 4L80E. Why people have to start confusion I'll never know.

[vic_V8]

Originally Posted by GreaseDog

TBI debuted in 82 with the Cross Ram in the Vettes, and followed suit in the F Bodies in 83. in 87 it became the norm on all trucks, with only the 454 remaining as the only option for a carbed engine, it was also available with TBI on top of it. Ford's MPFI debuted in 1986, so GM had the jump on them by a couple years with use and experience with their system.

in 1990 the 4L80E simply didnt exist in 1990, it debuted in 1991. your memory must be failing you, the 4L80E has always been a rock solid trans. ever look at the gear spacing on a 4L80E compared to a TH400? they're identical, except the 80E has a 4th .75:1 OD that the TH400 doesnt have, all other gears are the same. the 4L80E is based off of the TH400 purely for its strength purposes.

F-bodies had cross fire in 82, 83, 84, TPI followed in 85-92 and TBI went from 87-92

[Red94Chev]

Originally Posted by Red94Chev

Well, looks like they are doing the 454SS first on this weekend's episode. From the Powerblock preview video at http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/, they tore the whole engine out.

And now the disappointing news...http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/trucks/episodes/ "...adding new heads, a new valve train and a big carb and intake to his 454 to wake up the potential in this big V-8." Thought they might use Edelbrock's Pro-Flo EFI set-up since it is listed underneath in the "Show Products" section, but apparently not. What a waste! I hope that's a typo.

Guess the IT guys for the TRUCKS website realized their mistake and edited the text. It now reads "...adding new heads, a new valve train, a pro-flo EFI throttle body, and intake to his 454 to wake up the potential in this big V-8."

[GreaseDog]

too bad they didnt work with the stock TB setup. would've been so badass to see the lower technology NA truck spank the high tech blown truck. hahaha

[Red94Chev]

Here's a thought. These guys were making comments of keeping everything emissions legal to pass the tech inspection. I hope they realize that the Pro-Flo EFI setup is not emissions legal because there is no provision for EGR.

[GreaseDog]

i believe they said something about passing a sniffer test, if they just have to pass a sniffer test, they should be fine with a competent tuner at the controls.

[ChadM89]

I've watched both episodes. I don't remember them saying it expressly, but the tone of this comparison build feels to me like it's supposed to be, "Hey, look what you can do with a readily-available truck, a modest budget and without a ton of work."

If they've said as much I missed it, but I've definitely gotten that impression since the first minute of the first episode.

And then the FIRST thing they do is dismantle the front end of the chevy, completely remove the engine and tranny (way more work in the first 10 minutes of the show than most people are going to be willing and/or able to do), then put on several thousands of dollars worth of parts (way outside of most people's budgets).

Sigh.

The Edelbrock EFI system they installed alone costs about 2,400 bucks. For just under a grand you can get a similar Edelbrock MPFI system which uses the stock throttle body (with stock injectors removed) and the stock computer. I would have MUCH rather seen them go that route and maintain the "Average Joe Budget Build" feel of the build-up. And leave the motor in there to do it. They didn't do anything that they actually needed to remove the engine OR tranny for. The only thing they did on the bottom end was replace the main seal and oil pump. And the only thing they did on the tranny was install the shift kit. You can do all of those things from underneath the vehicle just as easily as you can pop on a new intake manifold and heads with the motor still sitting in the truck.

I just feel like they too-easily go into that "Oh we'll just yank it all apart, no big deal." mentality because they've got all the space, equipment and time to do that sort of thing and it's hard for them to get into the Every Man mentality of "I'm not going to do any more work than I actually have to.", which definitely includes taking my truck halfway apart just to do a top-end rebuild. Likewise they should have set a realistic budget in order to see what kinds of mods give you the most bang for the buck and most people could afford. Yes that means they'd have to make some compromises but guess what, that's exactly what all of us out here in the real world have to do. So some guidance on which things are best to do when you can't do everything you want would have been far more practical and helpful.

After watching it, I was left feeling like I might as well be watching a complete frame-off, sky's-the-limit project build.

[Red94Chev]

After watching TRUCKS! for a few years now, their lack of budgets for their build-ups did not surprise me at all. Most of these builds use sponsored parts anyway since this is a form of advertising for the manufacturers. Besides you can't hit "somewhere north of 400 horsepower" without spending some serious dough on parts. Most of the parts they put on could have been done with the engine in the truck. All 2 piece rear main seals will eventually leak and it's a big job to fix. Most people won't do this repair unless they are replacing the engine. I don't fault them for taking the engine/trans out.

[GreaseDog]

Originally Posted by ChadM89

And then the FIRST thing they do is dismantle the front end of the chevy, completely remove the engine and tranny (way more work in the first 10 minutes of the show than most people are going to be willing and/or able to do), then put on several thousands of dollars worth of parts (way outside of most people's budgets).

Sigh.

The Edelbrock EFI system they installed alone costs about 2,400 bucks. For just under a grand you can get a similar Edelbrock MPFI system which uses the stock throttle body (with stock injectors removed) and the stock computer. I would have MUCH rather seen them go that route and maintain the "Average Joe Budget Build" feel of the build-up. And leave the motor in there to do it. They didn't do anything that they actually needed to remove the engine OR tranny for. The only thing they did on the bottom end was replace the main seal and oil pump. And the only thing they did on the tranny was install the shift kit. You can do all of those things from underneath the vehicle just as easily as you can pop on a new intake manifold and heads with the motor still sitting in the truck.

I just feel like they too-easily go into that "Oh we'll just yank it all apart, no big deal." mentality because they've got all the space, equipment and time to do that sort of thing and it's hard for them to get into the Every Man mentality of "I'm not going to do any more work than I actually have to.", which definitely includes taking my truck halfway apart just to do a top-end rebuild. Likewise they should have set a realistic budget in order to see what kinds of mods give you the most bang for the buck and most people could afford. Yes that means they'd have to make some compromises but guess what, that's exactly what all of us out here in the real world have to do. So some guidance on which things are best to do when you can't do everything you want would have been far more practical and helpful.

After watching it, I was left feeling like I might as well be watching a complete frame-off, sky's-the-limit project build.

what you fail to realize with their logic of pulling the truck completely apart... how hard is it to stuff a camera underneath a truck and try to work on it at the same time? NOT EASY. its more of a filming thing.

[rob]

Originally Posted by oldred95

I think the biggest confusion is GM when it comes to their labeling. For whatever reason they refer to the 700R4 as a 4L60 which they say is a non electronic form of the 4L60E. To me there is a 700R4 and a 4L60E and thats it, there is no such thing as a 4L60. That is just stupid and only creates confusion.

your thinking is a little skewed, there is a 700r4, there IS a 4L60, and there is a 4L60E (we all know that one atleast)

the 4L60 is a non-electronic tranny, like the 700r4, but the electrical connector on the passenger's side has 5 wires running to it, as opposed to the 4 that a 700r4 has. I'm not sure if the extra wire runs the lockup solenoid or what, but there IS a difference.

'93 f-body's and corvettes I KNOW for a fact had 4L60's with a throttle valve cable, '94 started the 4L60E with the on/off lockup like a truck does, and '95 started the "pulse-width modulated lock-up clutch" in cars- basically a converter that makes you think your tranny is slipping in to overdrive when it locks up- bastards! lol

as far as internal guts, I don't know what the difference is, but there IS such a creature as a 4L60.

[ChadM89]

Originally Posted by GreaseDog

what you fail to realize with their logic of pulling the truck completely apart... how hard is it to stuff a camera underneath a truck and try to work on it at the same time? NOT EASY. its more of a filming thing.

It's not terribly difficult to get a camera under a truck when you have a full hydraulic lift and can put the truck up in the air. That way you can access the underside of the vehicle with both tools AND a camera, and those of us watching at home understand that while we may need to lay on our backs to do it, we CAN do it without all of the work involved in pulling those components out.

... I guess I was just hoping for a different kind of project than this turned out to be. I feel like they misrepresented what kind of work they had planned, at least in tone if not expressly. When they took that chevy apart to that degree, yanked the motor and tranny out, and I started adding up the costs of what they were doing, I felt like I was watching an entirely different project than the one I was expecting after the introductory episode.

It as if they said in the first episode "We're going to show you how to do a brake job!" and then when they started the work in the next episode, they've ordered a complete replacement 4-wheel competition brake set and are doing a drum-to-disc conversion while they're at it. That's great and all, but you've gone right past what I was expecting, much less anything most of us at home are going to do.

Just my opinion based on the impression I got, that's all.

[Red94Chev]

Sneak peak at next week's episode:

"It's Blue Oval boy Kevin's turn to take over the shop and kick Ryan out as he takes a radical approach to more power by turbocharging his V-8. Hidden under the bed, a tailpipe turbo spins up the boost while bigger fuel injectors and a new fuel management system pumps up the power on this big red Ford."

[Chevy1500z71]

so whats the deal wiht headers wiht an egr and then no provision on the intake for it on the chevy... needless to say id put money on the chevy but it scares me hearing that they will be turbo charging the ford. if you ask me they should have just went balls out and put a big nasty roots blower on the chevy and then the ford would have NO chance in hell, as they stand, the ford is still competition with forced induction...

[Red94Chev]

The ports on the headers are for the A.I.R. system. Air pumps were installed in these trucks until 93 I believe. Most people remove them since newer catalytic converters are able to pull out more hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide gas than the old pellet style converter that would have been found originally on the truck. The A.I.R. system was no longer used when the new converters were used from the factory. I suspect that they will leave it as the vehicle has to retain all originally equipped emission control systems...minus the EGR of course. Kind of stupid to retain old emissions equipment if technology has improved since then. The real test is the sniffer to pass emissions anyway.