Torque Management: Pics of how it works

[chevycrew20]

My thoughts on raising the shifts points under WOT to 5200rpms is where the maximum rpm on the cam is, the higher I get the rpms the less bog I have in the next gear.

The gear change will be for street, it wont affect us much for racing in low range. Considering the 3.73axle x 2.72tcase is effectively giving us 10.15 rear end gears. With the wheelspin we might hit rev limiter with 4.88 gears. Rev limiter hits at about 75 in overdrive in low range with the 3.73 gears. With 4.88 gears it would limit us to 60mph. Not going that fast, just wheelspin.

But 4.88 gears will come with the SAS swap later anyway. (and maybe 38's)

So basically, just lay it all out there and trust the tuner?

[airdeano]

5200rpm is "what the cam" is under perfect conditions and
equipment.
ive got the same grind in my 92 with a dual plane manifold
its 5400rpm, and more to boot if i had a decent PCM
tuning platform... EBL soon.
your single plane would be higher...
the bog after shift has nothing to do with the camshaft or
shift points it is the torque converter holding the rpms
hostage (low stall - low shift extension) instead of a 2200-
2500rpm shift fall.. a 1700rpm fall will keep the power range
stouter and less bogage.

airdeano

[excoelis]

Well after reading this I have decided to purchase a custom tune from wait4me. I don't do any racing and drive within city limits probably 65 to 75% of the time and tow a trailer maybe once or twice a year. Weights vary for what I tow from a few thousand lbs to 5 or 6 thousand lbs but the heavier weights very rare but usually I tow for up to 600 to 700 miles. I want the extra get up and go when I want it but would like to see an increase in MPG for city driving and highway driving. I don't abuse my truck in any way.
I think I will let wait4me program the pcm to do what they think is best for what I do and what I want with the tow/haul button for performance. As far as telling them what to do with removing 100% TM or 20% or anything else I will leave it up to them to decide. I would just like to see or feel an improvement in some way. I spent over $200.00 for a cold air induction that in my opinion you cannot feel or see any improvements without a computer so $150.00 in my opinion is worth it.
The truck is stock has 4:10 rearend, K&N cold air induction & 120,000 miles on her now and still running strong. I plan on in the next year to add dual exhaust but leaving the Catylac Converters in because if I ever move to a province like Ontario where they have the clean emmisions act I will need them to register my vehicle. I would like the tranny to last as long but my main goal is not to have it drop out 20,000 miles later but if it did I would rebuild it anyways.

[slicpartna]

Originally Posted by vhato

I had to go into work today because of an escaped prisoner. So on my way home I decided it was time to plug in AutoTAP and pull some data related to Torque Management. AutoTAP is an AWESOME program that is very customizable. So anyway, here it goes:


Have you ever wondered why your GM Truck seems to run out of power as it revs?

Have you ever wondered why your truck seems so slow after downshifting during wide open acceleration?

What happens when I hit my speed limiter on an 03-04 GM truck?

PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO IGNITION TIMING ADVANCE

Abuse Mode
Simple Idle-Everything look great


Wide open from a stop. Timing is pulled WAY back


Still Negative Timing


Finally, A little positive timing


Peak timing of this run


Power Loss: Timing is being pulled again.


Say good bye to any positive timing just before the shift to 2nd


Positive acceleration is back



Top speed run


What is going on? Pedal is to the floor but the PCM is only allowing 50%


99MPH Limit. Foot is still stomped on the gas. Electronic throttling at its best


What it looks like at 75MPH with cruise control


There you have it. All the reasons you need to get rid of Torque Management.

ok i understand how torque management works
does that mean that when a mfg advertise HP and TQ numbers
are falsely advertising their vehicles?

[oldred95]

Originally Posted by slicpartna

ok i understand how torque management works
does that mean that when a mfg advertise HP and TQ numbers
are falsely advertising their vehicles?

HP and TQ numbers anymore are just a selling point. What you get and what you FEEL aren't even close to what the engine might or could potentially be making.

[Pauly]

Originally Posted by slicpartna

ok i understand how torque management works
does that mean that when a mfg advertise HP and TQ numbers
are falsely advertising their vehicles?

No.

peace
Pauly

[MeangreenHD]

would anybody know if a manaul trannsmission 2004 2500hd would have tm. cause it sure feels like it. the only way i can get them to spin is in second gear roling and popping the clutch with the rpm's already up over 2. my truck feels like it has a powerband, runs like a chevette until over 2000 rpm then it takes off. all my friends tell me im full of s@#$ when i say that my truck runs like a dog. i think a nelsons tune is gonna be coming in the mail very soon. with 2 mpg it should have would pay for itself in a year. plus an extra 50 horse at the flywheel was what i was quoted.

[MeangreenHD]

Also would anybody know how to find a custom tune shop in your area?

[DarkCharisma]

Just read through all 13 pages and I'm not too sure what direction to take. All I want is my engine to run like an engine, not a computer with cylinders... So when I stomp on the throttle I get 100%, not 86%. When I want to light up my tires for the hell of it, I want to be able to do that without a PCM slapping my wrist and retarding my timing so I don't "damage my own equipment."

Would a W4M or Westers tune do the job?

Btw, it's a 2000 ecsb 5.3l.

[slicpartna]

Originally Posted by DarkCharisma

Just read through all 13 pages and I'm not too sure what direction to take. All I want is my engine to run like an engine, not a computer with cylinders... So when I stomp on the throttle I get 100%, not 86%. When I want to light up my tires for the hell of it, I want to be able to do that without a PCM slapping my wrist and retarding my timing so I don't "damage my own equipment."

Would a W4M or Westers tune do the job?

Btw, it's a 2000 ecsb 5.3l.

yep
just give them call or shoot them a email letting them know what you are looking for in your tune

[DefEddie]

HP and TQ mean nothing.
Read up on where the calculation comes from,how it is figured and who came up with it.
HP and TQ as a measurement of energy is a joke in the largest degree IMO.
Let me find a tute I wrote up about dyno and HP stuff on another forum.

[DefEddie]

When an object is moved from one position to another,work is said to be performed. Work is measured in units of foot pounds(ftlbs)
ex. If a 3 lb weight is lifted 2ft,the work performed would be 3lbsx2ft=6ftlbs.
Work equals the force in pounds required to move the object times the distance moved in feet.

Power is defined as the rate or speed at which work is performed. 1 horsepower is defined as the amount doing 33,000 ftlbs of work in one minute.
The unit of measurement was originated by an engineer by the name of Watt,who found that a strong horse could hoist 366lbs of coal up a mine shaft at the rate of one foot per second.
In one minute,the horse would have raised the 366lbs 60ft. This would be equivalent to raising 21,960lbs 1ft in 1 minute.
Arbitrarily,Mr. Watt raised this figure to 33000 lbs 1ft in 1 minute.
As a formula
HP= ft/lb per min. /33,000=DW/33000t
D= the distance the weight is to be moved
W=Force in lbs required to move the weight through that distance.
t=time in minutes required to move the weight through the distance D
example
How many HP would be required to move a weight of 5klbs a distance of 60ft across a level floor in 3mins?
HP=DW/33k=60x5000/33kx3= 3.03hp.

Torque
Torque is defined as turning or twisting effort. While torque is measured in pound feet,it differs from work or power as torque does not
necassarily produce motion.
example
If a 50lb force was applied at the end of a 3ft lever,there would be 150 ftlbs of torque. Whether the lever moved or not would be beside the point.

[DefEddie]

The rated HP of an engine is based on a formula developed in the early days of the industry and is based on the assumption of a brake mean effective pressure of 67.2 PSI and a piston speed of 1000fpm. Today's engines operate at much higher speeds and pressures and consequently the formula no longer gives any indication of the power output of an engine.
It is often incorrectly referred to as the SAE hp,but the correct name is rated or AMA hp after an automotive association which is no longer in existence.
However,the formula is still used for purposes of licensing vehicles.
Rated HP = N B(2nd) / 2.5
Where N is the number of cylinders and B is the diameter of the engine bore in inches.
example
Rated HP=6 x 4 x 4 / 2.5 =34

Another method of rating HP is by the indicated HP. This is based on the actual power developed in the engine from and indicator diagram.
As the indicated hp is the power produced within the engine,it includes the power required to overcome the friction within the engine.
Subtracting the friction hp from the indicated hp gives the brake hp
BHP= IHP - FHP
The indicator program is obtained by means of an oscilloscope or a special instrument which makes an actual drawing of the events that are occurring in the cylinder. It records in diagram form,the pressure existing at each instant of a complete cycle of the engine from the time that the combustible mixture is first drawn into the cylinder until the end of the exhaust stroke.
The area of the diagram is then proportional to the power developed,I.E.,it is the indicated hp.

When calculating indicated hp,it is first necessary to determine the mean effective pressure which is the average pressure during the power stroke,minus the average pressure during the other three strokes of the cycle. The indicated hp is then found by the following formula.
IHP= P L A N K / 33,000
Where
P= Mean effective pressure in psi
L= stroke in inches
A=Area of cylinder in sq.in.
N=number of power strokes per minute.
K=Number of cylinders


Reading is good.

:)

[DefEddie]

Is my 100 klydesdale horsepower better than your 300 shetland horsepower?
lol
This is some dated info(like the 70's) but i'm sure it still applies since physics havent' changed much

[oldred95]

I just remembered about this thread. My dad and his buddy's can't for the life of them figure out how a 295 hp 5.3 liter engine has less power then a 210 hp 350 TBI engine. I guess I'll have to show the old man the voodoo work going on inside the pcm of his truck and maybe then he'll understand whats going on.

[DarkCharisma]

Originally Posted by oldred95

I just remembered about this thread. My dad and his buddy's can't for the life of them figure out how a 295 hp 5.3 liter engine has less power then a 210 hp 350 TBI engine. I guess I'll have to show the old man the voodoo work going on inside the pcm of his truck and maybe then he'll understand whats going on.

Damn voodoo work.

And one of you TBI guys needs to come over to my house and fix up my damn 350 TBI, it's a three-legged dog. Everyone keeps tootin' the TBI horn sayin' it's better than the newer Vortecs, but I've never driven one that impressed me.

[02stroker]

howdy yall nice thread,,i think im gettin a clue as to this "TM" thing works ,,,but,,,what are the downfalls of removing it,,common sense tells me quicker break down in the tranny but what about internal motor parts??

[brettp06]

very informative info thanks

[nuckinfuts]

How much of a gain have u guys felt with all the tq management takin out?

[Atomic]

much, much more fun to drive