EPROM Tuning Software

[Einzee]

This seems to be an off limits subject for many. What I mean is there are few that know how to do it and even fewer that can do it. I'm ready to try it myself. What do I need to burn a chip? Is there a special cable that attaches to the ALDL. Is there a device that the chip is plugged into to "burn" it? I have an '88 5.7 TBI and soon changing over to the Edelbrock MPFI. I want to learn how to play with this stuff. I'm very serious about this. It kills me to know that there is something that I own and am not able to tinker with it. And if I burn s*** up, thats fine with me. Any links or direction will be appreciated.

[airdeano]

you can go to www.TunerCat.com and order the software to manipulate
the file code. thats 69.95, next youll need a UV eraser to blank the chip.
thats $50-250. youll need some why to scan to computer to find out
how lean or rich it is. thats $30-200. a couple of IC chips @ $8 each.
or you can run an emulator (on the fly tuning) which is $30 if you
already have tunercat.
contact badburban or do a search for chip burning.
airdeano

[HaulnA$$]

First, read Badburbans article on Prom tuning in the "Tech Articles" board, then read this http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/promintro.shtml

Next, get yourself an inexpensive Laptop computer.

For FREE Prom editing software (although I would encourage to donate the $30 to register it) go to http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

For prom burning hardware (burners, chips, adapters, ALDL cables, etc.) go to www.moates.net . I recommend that you use flash chips (can be erased and reprogrammed in 30 sec.on your burner) instead of Eproms because you don't need a UV eraser (takes 20 min. to erase an Eprom, 1 min. to program).

For free scanner/datalogging software go to http://winaldl.joby.se/ or go to http://www.ttspowersystems.com/diagnostic.htm for a full blown professional package (around $100 but I think it is worth it).

If you want to make your own ALDL cable go to http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl8192/8192hw.htm and make this one. It is the best most reliable design that I have found.

Last but most important, read as much as possible. Check out all the link pages on the above sites and learn as much as you can. You can be burning your own chips for an initial investment of around $150 plus computer, then upgrade from there if you are so inclined. Be aware, there is a steep learning curve for Prom tuning. You can be datalogging and burning basic chips in a few weeks, but to be proficient at it takes a long time. It is not just logging some data, then burning a chip. It takes a good working knowledge of engine management to do it well. I have been doing it for almost 3 years and am proficient, but there is a lot more I want to learn. I believe this is a valuable tool to have if you want to get the most out of modern computer controlled EFI vehicles. There is a lot of untapped horsepower in those boxes just waiting to be let out with a keyboard. HTH

[badburban]

Dang fellas thanks for the plug. Maybe now that I got my stuff done at work and Im down from 100 hour work weeks I can finally update that article.

HaulinA$$

Thanks for the link to the tunerpro software. Id heard about it before but never checked it out. Looks pretty nice.

Einzee

Pretty much everything HaulinA$$ said. Go flash chips for sure then you just need a burner. And all I can say is Datamaster ROCKS Well worth the $100. As for the edy mpfi kit Im not really that impressed with what Ive seen of it and the peopel who I know runnign it arent either. Might consider another route. Just my $.02 though.

Josh

[HaulnA$$]

HaulinA$$

Thanks for the link to the tunerpro software. Id heard about it before but never checked it out. Looks pretty nice.

No problem. I have a definition (.ecu) for the $0D mask and an ALDL datastream definition (.ads) file as well as others if you want copies to try out TunerPro. TunerProRT has a built in scanner/datalogger and was designed for use with the AutoProm realtime emulator (which I use) to emulate/datalog simultaneously, but it will work as a standalone datalogger with a standard ALDL cable. Nice to be able to datalog and edit .bin's with one program, and the best part is it is free.
As for the Edelbrock MPFI, I agree it is not worth the money. You can do better just tuning your stock TBI setup. When I first started Prom tuning, I gained 35 RWHP and a much crisper throttle response and 3 MPG increase from a stock 350 TBI by doing nothing but Prom tuning. JMHO

[badburban]

Tom

You have em and you're holding out on me? gasp :kidding:
Send em my way if you dont mind. Ive been toying with the idea of getting an autoprom or trying to build one. Thanks. email is badburban@hotmail.com

Josh

[Einzee]

Hey this is alot of great info. Thankyou. Now with this Edelbrock MPFI the figures were about +15/20 Hp by itself. Throw in some heads and a cam now the potential jumps to around +80 Hp <- Edelbrock #'s. They have a pkg, of course, with all this included. No way will I buy their overpriced stuff. I'm really going to use their specs. as a base and go from there. I am currently waiting for the chip that Edelbrock sends to its customers when they purchase the MPFI unit.<-#3 reason i want to learn to burn)
I desire more Hp from this truck. I purchased it 7 months ago for a steal. It was basically bone stock. It has a "new" engine w/warranty. Now that I own it I've done a few mods myself. New: Flowmaster muffler, EGR, ESC, Ign. module, ECM, rebuilt 4 spd OD trans w/shift kit and 2800 stall. Right here is when I went and had a PROM burned.
Since then its got a new Hi-Perf Holley throttle body that is a direct bolt on app. Chip needs to be reprogrammed.<-#2 why I want to learn. The Holley has 42% larger throats and of course the beefed up injectors.
In the very near future I will purchase headers, cam, and heads. Already possessing the MPFI kit, gear drive timing set, and electric water pump.
There's alot in store for this vehicle. I'm a really big fan of fuel inj. Other wise this thing would have already had a Double Pumper on it. The #1 reason I want to learn to burn is so I will have the ability to tinker and tweak with the computer and its functions.

[HaulnA$$]

Gear drive timing sets are not compattible with computer controlled vehicles unless you don't want to use a knock sensor. The gear drive units are too noisy and the knock sensor picks up the noise as engine knock. I would go with a good double roller setup and keep the knock sensor. JMHO

WARNING !!!! PROM TUNING CAN BE VERY ADDICTING !!!!

[95nProgress]

Hello, I spoke to Josh(badburban) a couple of months ago about my 95 chevy truck. I hope this is the right place to get some more info about the $0D ecu.

I have made some changes and am in the middle of programming. I have a stock bottom end chevy TBI 350, the $0D ecm and have installed AFR 190 64cc aluminum heads, a custom grind crower cam (212/218 @ .050 with .462/.470 lift 112LSA) I also have 65lb/hr cop car injectors, adjustable FPR, Gibson shorty headers and no cat. Currently I have 3.42 gears and will be going to 3.73 hopefully soon. I am programing with Tunercat and datalogging with Datamaster.

Programming is going well, I have just about got my VE/fuel maps set to where I am happy and most importantly where the engine is happy :) I have also raised the shift points from stock to 5550 @ 1-2, 5400 @ 2-3 etc. My question is where in the $0D will I be able to change my down-shift/"old fashioned passing gear"? Right now my first gear will take me to 38.5mph @ 5550rpm then shift to second and from there second will take me to 68.5mph @ 5400rpm. When in OD or 3rd gear cruising @ 50mph and punch it, it either stays in 3rd gear from 3rd gear or from OD drops to 3rd gear. At 49mph and punch it, it drops to second gear and carrys on up to 68.5mph. This 49mph/50mph barrier is what I am trying to find and raise. Is this change in the ECM constants table at the "Normal Kick Down 3-2"? Or does it have anything to do with the "Main Line Pressure" tables?

I hope that I have not stolen the topic of this post, I am just looking for some help. Thank you in advance.

Brian

[HaulnA$$]

Originally Posted by 95nProgress

Programming is going well, I have just about got my VE/fuel maps set to where I am happy and most importantly where the engine is happy :) I have also raised the shift points from stock to 5550 @ 1-2, 5400 @ 2-3 etc. My question is where in the $0D will I be able to change my down-shift/"old fashioned passing gear"? Right now my first gear will take me to 38.5mph @ 5550rpm then shift to second and from there second will take me to 68.5mph @ 5400rpm. When in OD or 3rd gear cruising @ 50mph and punch it, it either stays in 3rd gear from 3rd gear or from OD drops to 3rd gear. At 49mph and punch it, it drops to second gear and carrys on up to 68.5mph. This 49mph/50mph barrier is what I am trying to find and raise. Is this change in the ECM constants table at the "Normal Kick Down 3-2"? Or does it have anything to do with the "Main Line Pressure" tables?

I hope that I have not stolen the topic of this post, I am just looking for some help. Thank you in advance.

Brian

There is actually 3 places to change and all are in the constants. The main line pressure tables have to do with shift firmness and apply pressures rather than shift points. First of all is the 'Kick Down upper and lower TPS" qualifiers. These determine when the PCM enters and exits the "Kick Down" routine. Set the upper qualifier where you want to enter Kick down. I like around 80-85% TPS. Set the lower qualifier 5% lower (this is the lower hysteresis point where the PCM will exit Kick Down when you let off the throttle). Next, set the "Normal Kick Down 3>2 speed and RPM" constants. Understand that just like the 2>3 settings, the 3>2 speed and RPM settings are anded together before the PCM shifts. What that means is that they must both meet the qualifying criteria at the same time before the shift happens. IOW the PCM must see the RPM and speed thresholds before shifting/downshifting. This is where the datalogs are critical. Normal cruise shift points are set in the "Upshift/Downshift speed vs. TPS" table. Other tables of interest here are the "TCC release/engage MPH vs. TPS" tables. HTH

[badburban]

95nProgress

Glad to hear you tuning is going well. I always like to see people diving in and doing their own tuning. You have to admit it does feel good to say yea I burned the chip for it. HaulinA$$ is right on. Those are the things you need to work on. Now, I realize this post is about prom burning, and I hate to change the topic again like i did before about parts selection but my personal feeling is that if your going to stick with the tbi the afr's are a bit pricey for the performance gains. If you planning on going to something else later on its not such a problem though. But thats Just my $.02.

Josh

[HaulnA$$]

Originally Posted by 95nProgress

Currently I have 3.42 gears and will be going to 3.73 hopefully soon. I am programing with Tunercat and datalogging with Datamaster.
Brian

I forgot to mention something. Be sure to change your "RPM/VSS ratio" constant when you change gears and/or rear tire sizes. The PCM needs this value to be correct to properly calculate MPH. It has nothing to do with your speedo, that is controlled independantly by the DRAC module. The formula for calculating the ratio is ((Tire Rev's/mile) X Rear end Gear Ratio)/60. To correct the speedo, you need to change some jumpers in the DRAC (Digital Ratio Adapter Controller) module. I have a file that explains how to do this if you need it.

[95nProgress]

Thank you both for your replies! It is people like you that make self tuning possible for people like me. I have read and learned so much over the past 6 months on these forums and others. Call that kissing @$$ but I don't care! Thank you.

I have gone from the stock 15" wheel tire package to a 275/50 17. I have changed the DRAC module to get it as close as I can, but did not know that the computer needs the RPM/VSS ratio changed also. Currently my spedo is matched with my wifes car and an unsuspecting caprice taxi cab with the BIG digital spedo, and I feel that it is almost right on. My data logs with the datamaster show a speed about two mph difference now I know how to fix that. My DRAC experience was kind of trial and error so if you could send me that file I would appreciate it.

Brian

[HaulnA$$]

P.M. me with your e-mail address and I will jet it to you.

[badburban]

HaulinA$$

Could you send that to me as well. I was just gonna make up a big board with a bunch of switches (I mean I already have all the stuff to do it) and then trial and error figure out which jumpers I needed by turning switches on and off. Pretty ghetto I know but it does work. I figured Id do this now expecially since Im gonna put my 95 dash in sometime soon. I bow to your awesomeness. You got links and files for everything. You write your own code for the $0D hack. I NEED to learn to be able to do that stuff. When I grow up I want to be just like HaulinA$$ :kidding:

Josh

[some1else]

hey I'm about to dive in to the 95 tuning too! You guys are making me want an autoprom more and more. I'm going to try tunerpro datalogging for the first time today.

I'm also looking at charging a wb02 on top of that!

[some1else]

Looks like it's pretty much us 5 that have experience on the net with the 0D stuff. I can't wait to dive in. I'd love to finally ditch my fmu, but I don't know if that will be possible...

I'm going to start a new post where we can all interact under the appropriate title!

[HaulnA$$]

Originally Posted by badburban

HaulinA$$

Could you send that to me as well. I was just gonna make up a big board with a bunch of switches (I mean I already have all the stuff to do it) and then trial and error figure out which jumpers I needed by turning switches on and off. Pretty ghetto I know but it does work. I figured Id do this now expecially since Im gonna put my 95 dash in sometime soon. I bow to your awesomeness. You got links and files for everything. You write your own code for the $0D hack. I NEED to learn to be able to do that stuff. When I grow up I want to be just like HaulinA$$ :kidding:

Josh

O.K. cut it out. My old lady will get mad if you make my head any bigger. I just want to go faster and to me EFI seems the way to go. EFI was just a natural progression for me. I have been a gearhead since my first engine rebuild at 14 (that was 27 years ago. Oops! I just gave away my age). and I have a degree in electronics, so it just fits. I love to tinker and it bugs me when I don't know how something works. As for files and links and other good stuff, I have a ton of it. I am a firm believer in the DIY effort and the more knowledge that is shared, the better.

hey I'm about to dive in to the 95 tuning too! You guys are making me want an autoprom more and more. I'm going to try tunerpro datalogging for the first time today.

I'm also looking at charging a wb02 on top of that!

A WBO2 is an excellent tool for proper tuning.

Looks like it's pretty much us 5 that have experience on the net with the 0D stuff. I can't wait to dive in. I'd love to finally ditch my fmu, but I don't know if that will be possible...

I'm going to start a new post where we can all interact under the appropriate title!

Maybe we can convince the moderators to start a Computer/Prom tuning board so we can keep the knowledge flowing.

[some1else]

So much for the 0D thread. I'll ask the same question here. Has anyone had success logging with tunerpro? I just tried and couldn't get anything. Datamaster however, worked fine. I'm trying a new .ads file next, which was written by mark himself (according to the sig)

[badburban]

HaulinA$$

You have a distinct advantage over me with your ee background. Im an ME guy who is so stubborn I learned the electrical aspect. I dont like letting other people touch my stuff. Electrical stuff doesnt truly interest me. THere are aspects of it that do like the computer tuning. But I also learned that cause I was stubborn and I like to prove people wrong. I was told I couldnt get mine to do what its done. I agree though. Im a huge fan of DIY. Everything Ive done If i didnt know it I learned it. We need to get a Computer tuning board on here. I can do some more tech articles on various in depth aspects of tuning if it would help along with updating my other article and adding in pics etc if someone will host them. What would also be cool is if we could get a .bin library together obviously with a use at your own risk disclaimer but I feel alot more people would be willing to tune if they had something close to start off of. Ill tell you that for me going from no tuning experience and diving into my 383 was a bit harsh but I did it. Now we'd have to get people who are willing to share their bins but Ill throw mine out there. I mean someone obviously thought enough of this thread to sticky it. Im gonna put something in the suggestions area about maybe starting a computer/prom tuning board. I think its a heck of an idea.

EFI is definitely the best way to make big power. I cant go fast enough either. Im just a young guy (21) but I've been wrenching for about 17 years now (yep I was the only 4 year old swinging wrenches on the block). Granted I didnt completely know what I was doing back then but it turned into my passion and I feel I have a pretty good handle on things. I dont know everything and Ill admit it. There are some many people on this board who I just hope someday to know half as much as them or just as much as they've forgotten and I respect them a great deal. Im actually working on gathering parts for a vary mild T76 6.0 for my dads truck. Im thinking 600+rwhp and 600+rwtq shouldnt be too much of a problem with say 12 ish psi of boost. But this is only to get my hand at tuning with boost and ls1's as a wild big boosted 427 ls1 (gunning for over 1000 hp and tq which I dont think will be a problem) for a new project corvette. But Im new to the ls1 engines so the truck engine will let me play. The compressor map of the t76 is about perfect for the pressure ratio's and operating ranges Im looking at. Plus with my new miller syncrowave 250 tig welder (I got the the tig runner package) and my other cool toys Ill be building it all myself.

*Edit* Ok I feel stupid. Ill read the other posts from here on out. Im gonna move over to the other thread now.

*Edit* stuckatcuse
I havent played with either yet but Im gonna give it a whirl here pretty soon. Ill let you know how it goes. I liked datamaster so much I never even bothered looking for anyother logging software. Ill probably start playing with tunerpro this weekend as I have some tweaking I want to do on mine.

Josh