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Old 11-01-2005, 11:11 PM   #1
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Overview

NBS Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Yukon, Yukon XL, Denali, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT (including auto-ride equipped vehicles)
For the SUVs the front is done the same way as a truck, what differs is the rear. Ground Force seems to have a good selection of lowering kits for the SUVs. Kits vary from a 2.5" to a 3.5" rear drop. Most kits should be around $480 or more.


NBS 1500HD/2500LD, 2500HD, 3500 Dually and Hummer H2
McGaughys is the way to go IMO. The most they offer is a 3/5 drop. The front consists of spindles and lowering keys. For the Spindles you will need 17" rims or bigger. Prices vary from $309-$599 + shipping.

The rear of a 4x4 is no different than a 2wd truck, so if you want to go with something other than McGaughys for the rear, go for it.

The following info is specifically for the trucks, and more so for 1500HD/2500LDs

For New Body Style Half Ton Trucks
The front can be lowered by either loosening the torsion bar bolts on the torsion bar subframe. Another way would be to install Belltech torsion bar keys. They let you crank the front end down lower. Other then buying them with a kit for a truck through Stylinconcepts.com or truckperformance.com, the only way I could see buying them are through Belltech directly.

Another option for the front of the NBS 1/2 ton trucks are McGaughys spindles. They drop the front 2 inches. Be aware that 17" or bigger wheels are required when you install these spindles. And as I said with the Belltech keys, the only way I know to get these are directly from McGaudhys.

For Old Body Style Half Ton Trucks and SUVs
For the OBS trucks I am not aware of any way to lower the front of a 4x4 truck other than the Belltech torsion bar keys. Like I said the only way I can think of to only get the drop keys are from directly from Belltech. However, there maybe a kit for your truck that includes the Belltech keys.

www.Stylingconcepts.com or www.Truckperformance.com may have kits avaliable for your 4x4.

But one misconception i can tell you right off the bat is that the drive shafts do not bind even when a 4wd truck is layed out enguaged in 4wd. They are almost line straight. Thats why im really superised companies have found this out for 4wd static drops and decided to go lower then 3" in front. Lifting the truck causes much more driveshaft angel. Moving on, ill have my bagged info up in a couple weeks.

Here is are the pictures on how keeping 4wd and bagging a 4wd works.
Lower control are and a arm..

Ill keep it simple and post what i can with the time i have.
Here are pictures.. It makes sence if you look at what i have done.












When bagging a 4wd truck the rear is the same as a 2wd as stated. But on the OBS trucks the rear is 2" wider along with the front end of the 4wd trucks, so finding wheels that work might be some work. But the front diff hasnt been and issue along with the front drive shafts. So all in all, if companies would back parts in order to bag or lower a 4wd OBS this would make things alot easier. I really havent figured out after doing all this work why parts arnt made to lower a 4wd a 4" static drop in front or for that matter bagging a truck thats 4wd with 4wd still in place. If any company wants to tackle making a 4" or 5" drop key if possible for a static drop the the OBS 4wd trucks i can prove my point to the fullest. I was almost thinking of a way to do this myself. The front drive shafts are not even close to an issue with the obs 4wd trucks people make it up to be.
Here is what i have seen with the 6" lift on the same truck i have bagged right now. There is minor binding when cranked on a 6" lift.. When not cranked the drives shaft work fine flexed down twards the ground to a certain point.. Now The drive shaft when the truck is lifted from what i have seen has almost twice as much downwerd vs downwerd movment when the 4wd truck is layed out.. Keep in mind i have now lifted and bagged this truck seeing both and driving both. With this being the case companies are taking more of a risk with the lift kits vs making a 4/5" front drop kit for the 4wd trucks. I know once you go bigger then a 6" or so lift you have to drop the front diff. But from what ive seen there is no reason not to make a kit that allows a large drop in front while keeping your 4wd ability.
Keeping on the topic on what i was speaking about b4, with trying to figure out if its possible to make 4" drop keys or 5" drop keys. If this is possible to make such a key the OBS 4wd frame does not have bump stops or anything in the way from allowing the truck to do so. Now this has got me thinking. WHO would i even start talking to in order to try this as a prototype, being im bagged and 1" from laying frame 4wd able just to prove my point of the driveshaft issue, i could present myself to let say Belltech in order to produce "if possible" such a key using my truck as a ginniepig.. How would i approch such an ordeal? It would only been an innovation twards 4wd lowering and alot of money for the companies in lowering bis.
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Old 12-04-2005, 11:04 PM   #2
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Re: 4x4 lowered / bagged owners check in.

91fullsize, can i get some pics of your truck dumped, and at full raise? i just static dropped my 2500 hd duramax 4x4, but i would like to bag it. what is keeping you the inch from completly laying out? i want mine to lay frame and still have 4x4 capability. im going to be running 2 inch drop spindles with a 22 inch wheel. not sure on tire size yet. could you give me some specs on ure top bag mount and if ure using stock control arms. thanx and id appreciate the help man.

josh
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:18 PM   #3
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Re: 4x4 lowered / bagged owners check in.

Yeah, figure out how to get the frame on the ground then maybe I'll buy a T-case and some front susp. for mine so I can hook up.
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Old 01-10-2006, 10:04 PM   #4
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Re: 4x4 lowered / bagged owners check in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91FULLSIZE
For Old Body Style Half Ton Trucks and SUVs
For the OBS trucks I am not aware of any way to lower the front of a 4x4 truck other than the Belltech torsion bar keys. Like I said the only way I can think of to only get the drop keys are from directly from Belltech. However, there maybe a kit for your truck that includes the Belltech keys.

I have been told that using the 3/4 keys on a 1/2 truck (opposite of what the lift guys are doing) will lower. They are clocked simmilar to the lowering keys. Like I said this is heresay I dont know for sure.

I am glad this topic is finally being taken seriously. I have asked about this for years now and always got "just sell your 4WD and get a 2WD"

I plan on being very conserative with a 2/4 at some point. How are the airbags as far as handling? I want to make my truck into a AWD curve killer. I know what a static will give me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:10 PM   #5
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Re: 4x4 lowered / bagged owners check in.

91fullsize did you make your own top bracket?

also umm......would ur setup work on my truck (nissan frontier 4x4) it also has torsions and looks like yours.

btw new to site but so far love it!! keep up the good work.

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Old 06-22-2007, 12:43 AM   #6
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Re: Overview

Yes custom upper control arms.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:13 AM   #7
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Re: Overview

The front installation looks rather simple, however the geometry to get it straight must be a pain. I'm looking to create a similar design that will retain my 4wd for winter use. BTW, since I'm running a 2dr Tahoe what rear suspension should I look into?

The third pic though, is that showing the bumpstop removed??
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Old 08-31-2007, 10:44 PM   #8
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Re: Overview

What is the advantage (if any) of using the lowering spindles rather than the keys on the front?
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:28 PM   #9
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Re: Overview

THe keys will cause the torsion bars to loosen up and not have quite the right preload for full suspension control. kinda bouncy and hard to plant (but not unliveable) the spindles will keep all the torsions at the stock setting yet drop the truck a few to. either way messes with the alignment but i would rather have a spindle drop rather than a torsion drop (same goes for a raise)
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:31 PM   #10
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Re: Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koots
THe keys will cause the torsion bars to loosen up and not have quite the right preload for full suspension control. kinda bouncy and hard to plant (but not unliveable) the spindles will keep all the torsions at the stock setting yet drop the truck a few to. either way messes with the alignment but i would rather have a spindle drop rather than a torsion drop (same goes for a raise)

I can see the advantage of keeping the suspension in stock geometry by using the spindles (relation to the bump stops etc.) but I thought the only thing that determines preload on a torsion bar is weight. adjusting the keys only determines initial ride height.
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:32 PM   #11
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Re: Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99-2door
I can see the advantage of keeping the suspension in stock geometry by using the spindles (relation to the bump stops etc.) but I thought the only thing that determines preload on a torsion bar is weight. adjusting the keys only determines initial ride height.

yes, however, if road conditions allow, the suspension can drop enough to completely unload the bar with a key, when stock, the down travel is halted by the bump stop under the upper control arm to keep the bar loaded
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