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Old 11-02-2008, 05:24 PM   #1
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400 small block chevy

My borther has a 400 small block chevy engine and we did a tune up on it. About a week later, it ran lke crap and we came to the conclusion that its a pinging noise when accel. in gear.

In park if you open the throttle up it does'nt ping. wtf? It blows blue smoke on deceleration and a little bit of black.

So, I think the carb. need to be cleaned up and whatnot. I'm thinking the tune caused the truck to blow its seals. Matter of fact we did a compression test and cylinder #3 had no compression. So we may have blown the rings too.

My question is:

1. Anyone know the compression ratio of a 400 SB Chevy?
2. What should the ignition timing be and is that with the advance hooked up?
3. What should the idle be in Park?

Before we adjusted timing it ran fine. The timing was adjusted to 8 degrees BTDC with advance disconnected. Although, for that whole week he did'nt have any pinging until about a week later all of the sudden on starup one morning.

I'm thinking the previous timing before adjustment was retarded so that it could run 87 octane? Could'nt you retard timing to allow for a lower octane gas? But if the compression ratio is high would'nt that pre-ignite the mixture?

I'm just trying to figure this one out as I want to clarify whether or not I ruined my borthers engine. Because to my knowledge he was using 87 octane gas for the 4 years hes had it. But all the sudden after that tune up his engine blows smoke and pings, etc.

Anyone clarify? Thanks...
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:26 PM   #2
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Re: 400 small block chevy

the compression was usually between 8:1-9:1 usually if its pinging it needs more octane or the timing needs 2 be retarded. The engine prolly had to much timing and caused you to blow the rings since u lost all compression in #3 The ignition timing should be 8 degrees with advanced not hooked up you can try advancing the timing by 1-2 degrees and see if it runs better n go from there. and if engine has a stock cam idle should be in the 750-850rpm range.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:11 PM   #3
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Re: 400 small block chevy

wrong plugs?
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:53 PM   #4
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Re: 400 small block chevy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hex0rz
Matter of fact we did a compression test and cylinder #3 had no compression.
why bother going any further? its done, and needs to be pulled out.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:23 PM   #5
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Re: 400 small block chevy

You're right, it does need to be pulled. But I'd rather be educated the fact so as not to repeat the same mistake again!

What do you mean wrong plugs? My brother bought the plugs so I dunno. I know they threaded into it just fine atleast... or are you talking about heat range?

If the compression ratio is 8-9:1 then why go higher octane than 87? Is'nt that the 87 octane range for CR? Because then would'nt that just be dependant on ignition timing?

I did time the engine to 8 degrees BTDC with vaccum advance disconnected. Thats when a week later it did this. I don't get it...
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Old 11-03-2008, 12:32 AM   #6
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Re: 400 small block chevy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hex0rz
You're right, it does need to be pulled. But I'd rather be educated the fact so as not to repeat the same mistake again!
ok, fair enough.

1.)low
2.)most stock small blocks like about 7-10* initial timing (assuming its still carbed), and that is with the vac advance disconnected and plugged.
3.)idle should be right about the 750 mark, though some say as low as 650.

Quote:
What do you mean wrong plugs? My brother bought the plugs so I dunno. I know they threaded into it just fine atleast... or are you talking about heat range?
uneducated response, shooting in the dark. no way will a plug in the wrong heat range cause an engine to completely lose compression on a cylinder. i run plugs in my 86 305 that are 6 full heat ranges colder than stock, and have yet to have a problem out of it. still cranks around 170-180psi on all 8 holes, and it regularly gets heated up to 240+ when its running. we use it as a derby engine.

Quote:
If the compression ratio is 8-9:1 then why go higher octane than 87? Is'nt that the 87 octane range for CR? Because then would'nt that just be dependant on ignition timing?
static compression ratio has very little to do with octane requirement, dynamic compression ratio is what really determines it. dynamic compression ratio actually measures the stroke of the crankshaft after the intake valve opens, and takes into account stroke length and rod length along with cam specs. i know plenty of guys running 10:1 on 87 octane. you just have to have a cam big enough to support it.

Quote:
I did time the engine to 8 degrees BTDC with vaccum advance disconnected. Thats when a week later it did this. I don't get it...
well, you are dealing with a 30 year old engine, that if stock, has a) cast pistons, and b) crappy combustion chambers. you said it was pinging. the reason we use hypereutectic pistons and forged pistons now is that they are less prone to breakage from detonation (pinging). cast pistons are known for being especially weak under conditions where detonation is present. now take into account the combustion chambers, they're prone to hot spots, which will cause preignition which is another form of pinging, when the A/F mix is ignited before the piston reaches TDC, which is absolutely brutal on the piston, as the explosion is trying to force the piston back down the bore, and the rotating assembly is pushing it towards the top. then you get into carbon deposits over the last 30 years, which create more hot spots on the pistons or the combustion chamber, wherever the deposits happen to be.

judging by your blue and black smoke, i'd put money on pulling a head, and finding a nice big hole burned in the crown of the #3 piston. the blue smoke being the oil spray drawn through that hole, and the black being the uncompressed A/F mix that was intended for cyl #3, that is getting sucked out of the exhaust port as the valve opens.
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Old 11-03-2008, 12:53 AM   #7
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Re: 400 small block chevy

Eh, your right, uneducated response. I had no idea what he was implying about wrong plugs...

I should have mentioned this engine was rebuilt a while ago but my dad is betting on that it has'nt even gone over 15,000 miles yet. He owned it and barely drove it and then he gave the truck to my brother. Which he drove, but I know less than 5k miles a year...

So really, there should'nt be extreme amounts of carbon buildup. The worst I would put my money on is that the carb got all gummy cause it does'nt respond to a tune like it used to.

..well, I have'nt come to some sort of solution to the reason why it started. My brother is pulling the engine tomorrow, so in a little time I will be getting the opportunity to tear it down and figure out why it did what it did!
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Old 11-03-2008, 01:31 AM   #8
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Re: 400 small block chevy

watch it be something crazy like a valve through the piston.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:58 PM   #9
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Re: 400 small block chevy

Shot in the dark here, maybe a valve seat is done due to unleaded fuels?

using unleaded fuels in an engine without hardened seats will eventually fail. Lead was a high temp lubricant used to prevent exhaust seats from receding.

I dunno for sure. Let us know what you find.

Just blame your brother for not using leaded fuel or getting hardened valve inserts installed. lol.

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Old 11-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #10
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Re: 400 small block chevy

that's a good point Pauly, though it should have 882s on it, cant say i've heard of too many 882s lunching seats, the 3 pairs that i have are still going strong.
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